February 5, 2010
Questions for CR
I arrived home last night after a whirlwind tour of Ontario. Our management team drew straws and set out to support our field staff by attending multiple dealer meetings, held across the country this week. The main reason we chose to do this is so we could ride the new sleds with our dealers. I guess going to some exotic place like Vegas or Hawaii for a business meeting has its advantages but there is nothing better than pulling on a helmet after a four hour presentation and seeing for yourself what we’re talking about. Then again, you had better be pretty confident in your product. And we are.
Dane started a thread on TY with some questions for me which I foolishly agreed to so here goes…
Are the Float 2’s up front able to adjust ride height without effecting stiffness? No, there are negative springs which push against the main air spring when fully extended helping small bump compliance but once the shaft moves into the main spring it falls out of play. If you reduce main air spring pressure for more sag (lower height) it will get softer.
Will the Mega Float fit older mono skids? YES and due to the response on TY I have asked Richard and Tom to look into the pricing and availability, hopefully we can get it into the catalog asap
Lots of talking on the horsepower. We have decided not to publish horsepower figures in our marketing specs any longer this will be seen in all Yamaha products outside of outboards. This was requested by factory for several good reasons. Will the actual power figures show up on dyno reports outside of our control? most certainly. The big story on the engine is torque and the EXUP system- how it is used to control the exhaust pulse that puts a real dent on the torque curve. We have had to compromise some of the engine tuning in the past to limit the mid-range torque drop which sacrificed some peak HP. With EXUP there is more torque right across the board with no dips and a slight increase in peak power in the neighborhood of 5%. The objective was to increase acceleration and throttle response corner to corner. Mission accomplished.
Sales programs have been released in Canada, not sure about the USA but you need to get the real scoop from a dealer. Simple math on the Canadian program shows some significant retail value but I am not going to interpret it here and I am not going to address the economics of Canada versus the USA. It is what it is and I am not in the position to comment. How about our new grip warmers?
Apex mountain was dropped primarily based on poor sales volumes. Its my understanding that most Apex mountain riders were doing extensive mods to their sleds to the point that a short track will suffice as a base model to which custom tunnels, skids and turbos put them over the top. It is widely accepted that the new Nytro MTX is a better machine ‘out of the box’ for altitude. I spoke with Randy S last week who told me this is a well kept secret in the Rockies but the reports coming in for the 2010 MTX SE are surprising many customers (and dealers) with how well it does work compared to the 09.
Why no Nytro XTX SE? Short answer, no manpower. We want to offer something more than just BNG (color and graphics) in an SE and under the current economics and workload we had no room on the plate. Stay tuned, as we are listening to you.
There was a typo in our specs re: Apex XTX ski stance C-C is 42.5 and has been corrected, all three models share the same stance.
Why no new Nytro sub-frame and EPS, again short answer is manpower. To redesign the sled to accept EPS is a big undertaking.
Ergos- The new seat height is approximately 2 inches taller, the bars are raised as well. I have heard plenty of shorter riders get of the sled and praise the seating position. Taller riders really like the ergos as their knees are more relaxed and those with the beer keg bellies (as opposed to six pack abs) will likely agree with Mark Lester who felt he wasn’t folded in half on the new sled.
Question on engine cooling. YES it has a larger rear exchanger with 30% more interface with the tunnel for additional heat sync, plus it maintains the rad and fan.
Fox Float maintenance is marginal compared to some other systems, we have had very few issues with the front floats and the new Mega Float shares the same design. It is sensitive to air pressure and calibrated to offer our best ride comfort settings, note it is not an RTX calibration, it offers excellent small bump compliance with very progressive rate to resist bottoming (IMHO it works awesome!)
Apex demo rides are VIP, we have sleds running all across North America (including east of Quebec) but your dealer will be deciding who gets the invite (hint hint).
Regarding engine RPM, the engine still peaks around 10,200 rpm and the gear reduction is still the same to lower clutch speed for greater durability, no belt issues with a Yamaha!
Still waiting for data on top speed difference between 144 and 128 / weight difference bewteen the two skids and tracks and A-arm compatibility with current.
The trail is increased by 15mm which does a lot to reduce ski lift. Prior, it was a compromise to keep the steering effort reasonable and no the lift was not due to engine location so much as geometry and yes I have ridden the lightweight 4-stroke of our competition which stays very flat as well. Problem is it feels like it has a ‘cinder block on each spindle’ and that is to quote a journalist who will remain unnamed to protect his livelihood (doubt you will be reading it anytime soon in his rag) 
There are quite a
few new things that haven’t been disclosed: New 83gram clutch weights, 38mm header diameter, new lightweight, rare earth mag with significantly higher output, knock sensor, 39mm intake, new forged pistons, new intake cam, new hydraulic tensioner, just to name a few
I would like to thank those of you who have taken the time to complete my survey on this blog. If you havn’t I would sure appreciate your feedback just click this link.
In closing, I did the following interview on the positioning of the new Apex which is on our new microsite yournextsled.com my first attempt at a ‘video blog’, if you are interested here it is…
Great Job Chris.
Thank you.
BTW I was out riding around Dorset today and my Buddy needed some wheels for his Boosted Nytro. I remembered there was a Yammie dealer in the area, found it on the Map, and dropped in to see Don at Mountain Trout House Yamaha. Lo and behold he had a full slate of 2010’s sitting outside for anybody to ride whenever they wanted. What a concept, a dealer actually encouraging people to try the sleds. I had never met him before but within 5 minutes he had me out on an Nytro XTX. I loved the skid, it transforms the Nytro and should work great on the 2011 Apex. It looked great in Black too (Thanks for trying on the Apex XTX). Don was very knowledgeable and is credit to your dealer network. He mentioned the new 2011 sleds will be available to ride next Saturday the 13th on Oxtongue Lake. See http://www.mthmarina.com for details.
OK Dane… no more ‘make work projects’ for me this week
gonna try to make it up to Oxtongue for the test rides cr
February 5th, 2010 at 8:29 pmi must say you really have what it takes to be in the position you are,your the only 1 that i know from a factory level that is in touch with the consumer,i would not be able to take critisism,youre video is very informative,ive read every pcs of info on the sled from ty,mags and yourself and from what i read,i think its gonna be a game changer,i want 1,bad,but the 2nd half says it not time yet,my 09 only has 9000 km,its still good for alot of miles,its creating a buzz around here,i already have 2 friends in line for 1 next year,while your answering questions,i was wondering about some including myself having the driveshaft failing at 10 to 12000 miles,is it something worth looking at or is it a minor problem,thanks for your time and keep the posts coming.
Thanks Pat, not sure what is going on with the drive shaft, frequency or how common will do a little internal inquiry. Someone else had suggested a grease zerk on the bearings…cheers cr
February 5th, 2010 at 9:52 pmCR, thank´s for the info. Really great stuff here. XTX seems like a great ride. I hope I´ll be able to go for a test run this spring.
Ike
February 6th, 2010 at 8:38 amChris…I’m sorry,
When the XTX was reveiled last year I was dreaming of this crazy “Nypex” cross between an apex and nytro with 180+hp’s and all we got was Ill quote myself “Just a long track Nytro” well I had nothing but negative things to say about the XTX and Yamaha….then after the dust settled I ended up starting to like the sled then ended up snow checking one a few weeks latter and gone was the Attak….well supprise supprise I love my XTX….
Now let’s talk about the 2011 Apex….Fed 2nd was a sad day for me…”Just an Apex with power stearing” and once again I was negative over on TY…but Yesterday ridding in the Muskokas at a slow pace with my wife on her brothers Phazer I started thinking that this 2011 Apex isn’t that bad afterall..and I’m starting to fall in love all over again….will I trade in my Nytro??..no cause I really into Boondocking now…but maybe a new sled for my wife?? The one thing she complained about was how hard it is to stear a snowmobile and maybe Power Steerings the answer for my wife…(And Ill have an amazing trail sled to borow)
Cheers from Sunny Muskoka’s (wife waiting with her helmet on, she’s wanting her second ride…
BTW…she wanted me to say the Yamaha needs a Female Desiner cause your the only one of the Big 4 without a Pink sled…(Ok she’s gone…good job in NOT bringing out a pink sled;)
Carefull what you ask for, we have a limited, build to order dress-up kit for the Nytro with lots of pink accents (tunnel braces, bumpers graphics etc.) with a new matching pink and blcak KLIM Goretex ladies suit… you will look real pretty riding your pink Nytro when she steals the Apex
cheers cr
February 6th, 2010 at 9:13 amChris,
Thank you so much for all you do for those of us on TY. I hope people realize how lucky we are to have an actual responsive point of contact & information source at Yamaha.
Also – I love the new Apex! It’s hard to imagine a motor that’s even more responsive than the one I already have in my 06 RTX. Too bad there will never be a model that looks as good as the 06 RTX though
Thanks Bill, appreciate the support and glad to hear you’re likin the new sled!! cheers cr
February 7th, 2010 at 7:27 amThank you cr, very much for all you do for those of us on snowmobiles and for Corporate Yamaha. I hope people realize how lucky we are to have an actual responsive point of contact & information source at Yamaha. Best regards in continuing with the passion you have for the sport and Yamaha Corporation.
February 7th, 2010 at 2:02 pmGood evening Chris,
February 7th, 2010 at 7:19 pmJust wanted to say thanks to you and all the people at Yamaha for all the hard work.
Just wanted to pass along some feedback on the new 2011 Apex. I got to ride one of these a few days ago here in Midland and I totally agree that they are a huge improvement. The EPS works excellent and gives really easy steering and handling. The engine response is much improved with the EXUP system and it is also Quiet.
Feels like driving a R1 on snow!! Awesome..
Really pulls hard on the lake..
and the look, fit and finish is still #1 like it always has been.
Take care and keep up the good work..
Hi Chris,
The new Apex sounds like the perfect sled for me. I can’t think of a better combination of 4 stroke reliability , 144 in. track, 150+ hp and power steering, for the kind of lake and forest road riding we do up here in the Northwest part of the province. Unfortunately my 06 Renegade 600 sdi just lost a connecting rod bearing, which took out the case, crank, and one jug. The $2500 repair bill means I’ll have to ride it a while longer to get my money’s worth out of it. Sure was hoping to add another 4 stroke to the fleet soon. By the way, I have a competitor’s quad with the power steering……. simply amazing. The ONLY way to go. Would LOVE to have that feature on my next sled. Gotta start saving my sheckles right now.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:57 pmKeep up the good work, really enjoy reading your comments and insights. Have a safe riding season.
Awesome, awesome, awesome. And keep us posted on availability of updated TRIC ice scratchers. I’ve worn mine out on these Ontario trails!
February 7th, 2010 at 9:55 pmCR, last saturday we started to convert my ´07 Warrior GT (ATTAK) to 144 track. In the process we noticed that my MONO front arm was cracked. 5800km´s on the clock now.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=76660&start=45
Nothing really special about that, kinda expected that it would brake sometime, since many of the MONO equipped Yamahas here have suffered the same fate… I just thought it would take some serious mogul jumping on our non-groomed trails to brake it. And of the looks of things it might have been like that from the previous owner. Who knows.
Anyway, to get to the point. I hope CR you guys have now tested the 2011 sleds better. Kinda would suck if the suspensions would brake down on a 15000 USD sled. I know the europeans are always the minority and we are tireless when wanting more firm suspensions and tougher suspension components. But as you can see, we have our reasons to do so. Groomed trails here are rare as king´s death you (old finnish saying).
Take care!
Ike
February 8th, 2010 at 5:59 amSee that most people are happy again. Not me, no Yamaha for me this year, maybe a new Cat. But of what I understand the new models going to be nice touring or trail machines. Nice for all people who like that kind of riding.
Going 2-stroke for another year or two. And as Ike says in Scandinavia and Finland groomed trails are rare. We need SNOWmobiles.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:43 pmI am really disappointed to see the Apex MTX gone. I am not a big fan of the FX chassis and the Nytro motor leaves a lot to be desired compared to the Apex motor. I have a 2003 RX-1 Mtn. and a 2007 Apex Mtn SE. The Apex is completely stock and the RX-1 is with the exception of a Polaris 159 track, MPI tunnel extension and 2005 RX-1 clutching. I would take the RX-1 over the Nytro. How much effort would it have taken to put the Pro Mountain Air skid and a Camo Extreme 162 X 16 X 2.5 under the new Apex. We don’t all have an endless bank account to add boost, new tracks/skids and all that to an already too expensive new sled. Yamaha really missed the boat on this in my opinion.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:42 pmI think you should BUY Lynx from BRP.. Then we would have a serius bumpskid on the sleds.. Then lighten the Nytro 30kg, 44mm track and I will be a happy camper.. EPS wont help in the deep stuff.. Skis wont touch the snow anyways
February 9th, 2010 at 12:25 pmChris,
I have a concern about the tric ice scratchers. Back in December, I bought and broke the old ones which are suppose to be replace with an updated set. I have checked with the dealer on numerous occasions and they tell me now it will be March before they receive them. As our snow here in Newfoundland is at a premium this year, I am concerned that I will not get them for the spring conditions here. Why is it taking so long for the dealer to receive the updated Tric scratchers?
Thanks for any comments on this
Sean, I tested the new scratchers on my own sled this past weekend and they appear ready for production. We have had a struggle getting them right but I wasn’t prepared to sign off on them until we knew they would hold up. There is one more test result required. We should be shipping very soon. We have the Scorchers brand in stock which work excellent providing you stow them before using reverse. Sorry for the delay,,, cheers cr
February 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pmGood afternoon Chris,
I was attending the dealer meeting in Sudbury for the release of the 2011 Apex.
I know they have the new heated grips on them, but I do recall you making mention of an accesory that wired into the older apex’s that warmed up the grips considerably more than stock, i was wondering if you could tell me the name of that accesory.
Thanks,
Dean
Hey Dean, as I mentioned at the dealer meeting, I could never endorse the Yamaheater device as it will modify your system and has not been tested or approved by Yamaha. It runs in tandem with the stock heater switch having the ability to let the ECU give maximum power to the grips at low rpm. There is a good TY thread that covers everything you need to know. Tell Rock I said hello. note: This comment was typed by very warm fingers
cheers cr
February 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pmHey Chris, i’ve got a question about warranty. What is the max warranty Yamaha offers on new sleds, and do they offer more in the U.S.? Are there mileage limitations? And finally, are there 3rd party companies that offer longer warranties that dealers sell/endorse?
Thanks
YK
Hey YK factory warranty is one year globally, YMUS and YMCA both offer additional ’service contracts’, which is an extension of the factory warranty but not administered by the mother ship, not aware of mileage limitations but I’d be checking the fine print depending on the model and application.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:17 amcheers
cr