January 22, 2010
Viral launch of the 2011 Apex
IMPORTANT: SLED TALK SURVEY, please click here
It has been ten days since I took a group of great guys for a ride on the new ‘my
stery sled’ which by the way is not so much of a mystery any more 
. I have spent a ton of time on the forums reading what the men who actually rode it had to say and all the comments and conjecture from the folks who haven’t. I notice something on Sled Talk that I see on the forums as well. Each post is read by approximately 100x the number of people than actually write a comment. It really makes me wonder what the silent majority thinks of it all and more importantly how powerful is all the word of mouth being generated outside of the internet?
Sledfreak made a good comment here last week comparing magazine articles to social media “I find way more valuable information on the internet forums. There is also a lot of misguided information, but you have to read through the dirt to get to the good stuff.” I have observed the well moderated forums like Totallyamaha and Dootalk (hats off to the owners and mods) maturing over the last few seasons . There is a lot less ‘bashing’ than in the old days. That said, there is such a wide range of users participating that there will always be a contrary view point (or 10).
I am preparing to address our field staff at a meeting next week in Quebec and plan to hit some topics using examples I have learned right here on Sled Talk and over on TY. Some of you might remember a survey I posted on-line for Apex owners a couple of years ago. Several questions referred to your satisfaction levels of various components and functions. I was able to filter different model year data (06 to 07 to 08) and found some significant trends all relative to the ongoing changes that were made in production to each model year. The mono rear suspension is a good example with far fewer issues (much higher satisfaction) in 08 than 06. The point is; when I read comments on the forums comparing an 06 with what is perceived as the same thing coming in 2011, suggesting it is not changed enough to be worthy of a trade up, I have to shake my head.
There is another whole cross section of guys who are looking for the next generation of 4-stroke off-trail machines, basically a revamped Nytro on steroids. Clearly the ‘mystery sled’ is not a mountain machine or a snow crossing boon-docker. No – its a dedicated trail sled and clearly, a disappointment for those that are looking for something else. I have been checking out the avatar, location or signature after reading a negative rant on the OMG often to discover the author is riding a Nytro or competitors equivalent machine. It’s good to vent and its helpful for us to see where your interests lay, just remember that we all have different needs and expectations regarding our sleds. Interesting fact: over 60% of the machines sold up here are used on the trail.
Anyway the coolest thing about all of this is that you can participate in the forums if you choose. When someone who has experience with a machine posts, you can challenge him or ask a question. You won’t find that little feature on any of the corporate web-sites (with the exception of Sled Talk ). You will also find plenty of ‘dirt’, the negative and sometimes off-colour comments, but give it some time and the ‘self policing’ attribute of the on-line community will generally put things in proper perspective, either confirming or denouncing the source and their agenda.
Many of the 2011 model comments have addressed the issue of lightweight and EPS (power steering) often in the same reference. Did I just confirm that Yamaha will be the first manufacturer to offer EPS on a snowmobile? Of course I didn’t. But if we did… could EPS possibly offer the same benefits of having light weight? Could it offer some new benefits, even greater than light weight alone? What is the real benefit of having light weight in a trail machine when you are seldom if ever stuck or faced with carving a turn in deep 
powder? Is it possible that there are still some features yet unknown and the sum total of all could far outweigh the spec sheet? Naw it’s just warmed-up left-overs, right?
I can find just about every possible answer to the above, the good the bad and the ugly. What I’m really liking is what the guys that have actually rode the sleds have to say (okay at least 90%). That’s why we released it ahead of the official date. Real riders, their own words speaking on neutral ground. Sure we could post rider testimony on our own web-site but who would believe it? I sure wouldn’t! After-all we would edit, dip it in sugar and whitewash it with cream-cheese before showing anyone, its what most big companies doo right? These days even the magazines editorial credibility is suspect (I refer back the SledFreaks comment).
You might hate the lack of disclosure, you might enjoy the chatter and imaginative conjecture or you might appreciate the preview coming from real riders with no corporate censorship or financial influence. But no matter how you look at it, we have surly given you something to talk about!
Cheers cr
This is kind of what I was talking about in a Swedish forum. It might be good. It might not be. I am actually not that bothered since it will not fit my ridingstyle and I bet almost no one in Sweden actually need that kind of sled since the trails never are groomed.
My biggesst consern is the skis. How wide are they? They look very similar to the current skis in width and that is in my opinion a NO GO in our conditions!
Another consern would be the of trail capabilities. Id imagine the EPS makes it easyer to have more skipressure.. Now that is no good in the powder. The sled (if higher skipressure is the case) will be alot more narrow in the performance then the Apex.
When Im at it. Id like a Nytro SE with OFT steering relocator, 44mm back country track, SLP PP skis with smoother shifting, a better skid (both performancewise, hifax wear and aproach angle) and while you are at it a 30kg diet! I bet about 80-90% of all sold Nytros here in Sweden are equipped with a proper track, why not do it right from the start?
This is just my opinion and my take on improving a good product
.
Thanks for your comments Erik, I have been talking to Ole Johan Haga in Norway and we are going to work together to try and secure some more cross-over features for both markets. We now have the MT9 lightweiight powder ski, coupled with a 1.75 track and some skid changes and calibration we could certainly address some of your needs. 30kg is quite a chunk to loose but you’ll have to wait to see what the future will bring… cheers cr
January 22nd, 2010 at 3:24 pmHi Chris
I have been following all the action from the sidelines on TY an ST. I concur with you comments about sledfreak above posted above. I filled in the survey last year and the “new sled” sled seems to address the some of the issues I had with the sled:
I am 6.2 and 220 so I like a big sled that will handle well sit a little higher. We all like lots of power but do we really need it? I am a trail rider and enjoy and givn-er once and a while but reliability comes way before anything else – I got out of snowmobiling in the early years because we spent more time fixing then riding!! LOL.
Looking forward to the release and really enjoyed how Yamaha introduced the new sled this year – it certainly has been fun to watch all the jabber from some informed and not so informed riders!!
Keep up the good work.
Cheers Mark aka Yamforlife
Thanks Mark! cr
January 22nd, 2010 at 5:09 pmGlad to see Yamaha didn,t go too radical on the looks of this new sled(FX-1?).Love the smaller rear end along with the cleaner side panels.Sounds like its a step forward in trail-sled comfort,less fatigue over the long-haul.Great to see a longer track(main reason i have a warrior over an RX-1).It may not be everyones cup of tea but one sip will have them back for seconds(better keep the kettle full).
green tea at that! cr
January 22nd, 2010 at 6:29 pmyouve nailed it right on,ive never seen so much talk about 1 new model,positive or negative,people are talking about it,must mean something,when the dust settles,all will be good,i sure know my next sled will have eps,i have it on my grizzly and absolutly love it,about more power,we dont need a sled with 200 hp,its just ridiculous,my vector at 120 hp is plenty for the trail,like someone said on ty,do we really want our sleds to be built of tupperware and tin foil and then have to buy every reinforcement brackets so it doesnt crumble when you hit bumps,now i have only 1 request,the whole yamaha line up should have eps,or at least optional,just like the grizzly,everyone should benefit from it,not only the high end models,cheers
pat
Thanks Pat, you are far to level headed to be participating in the forums
January 22nd, 2010 at 10:20 pmSounds good Chris. Since I have sent my wishlist, Ill just have to wait and se what santa brings!
As of now I am a no sled cind of guy. Sold the -08 RTX and am on the market.. Maybee next week I will have made up my mind if a Yamaha will be my next sled too… Might be Rovaniemi aswell, you never know!
January 23rd, 2010 at 3:09 amI know testing is required but i have alot of friends that loved my attak but hated the heavy steering. I also converted a few doo guys over for a short while to apex,x only to hear them complain about the skid cals and bearing failures on the skid wheels and jackshaft and drive bearings. the axle is no big deal but when we had to replace the jackshaft bearing on the secondary side in the ssleds with less then 3000 miles on them i was not a popular guy lol. Is there not a way we can get that redesigned? i pull the seal and clean and lube mine once a year only to always find it wet and usually dried up grease in the first year. i love my attak which is now converted to a 144 x 1 3/4 backcountry. revalved rear shock ohlins all around and a mpi stage 1 on it. I would love power steering, but for me to replace it i would need something like what i built. I would settle for less stock reliable power as there is nothing better then turning the key and go. Keep up the good work and thanks for getting the rail tip prices lowered. I am wondering if that was your doing as i complained and wasnt long they were half price. thanks
Not sure if the jack shaft bearing has been addressed but I am going to forward your email to someone I know who should read it. I think everyone should be thanking you for getting the rail tips pricing reduced, after all you are the one who brought it to our attention!
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:27 amcheers cr
Whats up with the location of the front reflectors?? Its like the designers forgot them, then quickly riveted them to the front bumper…they were clean and integrated on the old Apex.
Looking forward to ridding the new sled….hopefully we will see it in a 144 XTX skid also;)
Kinda what happened after the reflector police discovered we were a few inches off the required location… we can all feel relieved now that those amber babies have the primo location up front! cheers cr
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:05 amHere’s another vote for EPS on other models. Vector and especially RS Venture GT seeing it’s the heaviest of the bunch.
I know I would love ridding with an EPS but I can just imagine my wife after a day of ridding with it how she would love it. Or one of my neighbors at the cottage who is missing one arm and love to sled.
EPS IS a game changer for trails. No doubt about that one.
Looking forward to putting on some big miles with the new sled next year, should be a lot easier raising the arm once in the hot tub apres ride
cheers cr
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:30 amI think that the 2011 sled is a game changer because of the EPS system for me who is having problem with my shoulder it will mean that maybe I can ride a snowmobile a few more years THANK YOU YAMAHA can’t wait to go for a ride.
Cheers Jerry… here’s to a few more good years!
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:50 pmTo quote Chris,”It has been ten days since I took a”, ride with a group of guys with the mystery sled in our pack and I haven’t stopped talking about my experience since then, especially with fellow sledders, both online and in person. I like the grass roots approach to marketing (real people – not paid actors – talking of their experience, versus sales and marketing people hyper selling me on something they think I need. I call it grass roots but it’s more like word of mouth but with the technology of today, it is a large community that can spread the word quickly (both positively and negatively!). I am very grateful for having the opportunity to participate in the ride Chris put together because although I put more value on real people’s oppinion than the corporate sales and marketing spin, I am also a person that appreciates being able to try something new in order to form my own opinion.
I frequently read and sometimes post on several forums (HCS, TY, OC) and follow Sled Talk. I find most of it useful and I can choose what to read and not read. I have found many credible sources and good advice through these forums and find the published magazines less and less useful.
Thanks Chad, I think we are witnessing a major shift in how snowmobiles will be marketed in the future, probably take a while yet but there is change in the snow dust! cheers cr
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:43 pmI ride a Apex , do I need more power..no probably a Vector would do me.I ride 200-300 miles a day when I go riding, reliability is must for me. Long range fuel tank,warmth on those -35 temp. days, easy handling and ride comfort are important. A quieter and longer lasting exhaust system is also on that list.
Yeah, maybe we could drop a few pounds off the sled, but, if reliability, handling and stability are there, I will be happy.
Thanks CC, I am told the exhaust system will go the distance… cheers cr
January 23rd, 2010 at 5:13 pmHello CR,
Yesterday we were with Jon in Quebec city and spend the day on the APEX 2011. Great sled overall and the EPS does a fantastic job.
Great job Yamaha with this one.
you can read our post on the subject by following this shortcut.
http://passionyamaha.superforum.fr/discussion-generale-f2/yamaha-2011-prototype-t4650.htm
Thanks Yamaha.
Merci, glad you had a chance to ride before the rains! Will check out you post for details. I am now here in Quebec with Jon and will ask him how it went for your ride
cheers cr
January 25th, 2010 at 7:10 amGood day Chris,
I ride a Attak gt 2007 and love it!
Most people i ride with have Polaris or Ski-Doo and always have problems when riding!
I have been reading all articles and comments for the new OMG11!
There will always be negative comments but the positive outweighs the negative ten fold!
Looking to change next year if all comments posted are true.
when and where will you be in Quebec so that i could try the new mystery sled?
Ride hard
Tomas
Hey Tomas, thanks for the shout… the QC dates are getting tightened up now, suggest you speak to your dealer and let them know I referred you. The OMG rides are basically VIP as invited by dealers. It’s raining here in Quebec City so we are staying off the trails, hopefully will change tomorrow… cheers cr
January 25th, 2010 at 10:56 amAwesome write-up.
It’s pouring rain. I think all 2011′s should be offered with umbrella’s.
Cheers,
YK
If I may suggest a new Klim GoreTex suit, umbrellas tend to slow you down
cheers cr
January 25th, 2010 at 1:08 pmHi Chris
Was wondering if you have any update on the Tric ice scratchers,returned mine to the dealer a couple of weeks ago and am still waiting for news. The way its going in the Montreal area we are going to need them, Thanks.
We’re close, have changed to a stronger mount tab and lightened up the tip to control the deflection, should be ready to start the production late this week… stay tuned… thanks cr
January 25th, 2010 at 3:33 pmYes have a Nytro MTX. I’m glad the flatlander are getting a new sled with some cool fetures, but i need a sled to keep up with the 800′s and it missing from the line up thats all us mountain guy’s are saying flat landers that three models to pick 120 hp 130 hp 150 hp and two track lengths. The mountains guy’s have one 130 hp only. Apex mountain it gone and needs replaces with 160-170 hp so we can. they are 60% with three 40% should have 2 mouuntains specifice not make work sleds. I love my nytro but it took work and money to get it there but i would not trade it for another brand.
Thanks Todd, we know another model would be good, just not in the cards for this season. Sounds like you have your sled dialed so hopefully that’ll do the trick for now. Had dinner with Randy Swenson last night who told me they are finding some rather impressive differences between the 09 and 2010 model year MTX. But this year its the flat-landers who get to smile… cheers cr
January 26th, 2010 at 3:26 pmChris,
How about a 80 or 100 hp version of the new APEX sled for the wife, the phazer doesn’t cut it, Sorry!
George
You know the Phazer motor in the Vector chassis with power steering would be one hec of a nice ride… hmmm cheers cr
January 27th, 2010 at 4:12 pmI lost one of the nuts that holds the tie rod to the ball joint through the spindle on the Phazer. I ordered new everything but was surprised that the nut is just a regular nut. Any idea why Yamaha isn’t using a Nyloc Nut or something? I know there’s a spot for a cotter pin, (which was missing btw on both sides) so I put new cotter pins on, but this isn’t the first time the steering has come loose on the Phazer. I know there’s been updates possibly involving loctite and new torque specs, but I just had the front end replaced under warranty (spindles/ball joints) and those nuts shouldn’t be coming loose. I’m glad the bolt didn’t pop out while riding! Eeek!
Hey Allan, thinking those cotter pins are your answer… Yamaha has used cotter pins a lot over the years as they are foolproof compared to even Nylock nuts which are not good for multiple use. Glad you caught it in time. Now where did those pesky cotter pins go?
We have just released a new stash bag for the windshield area of the OMG wondering if that would suit your needs? Got rained out for our ride in Quebec City, believe it or not!! cheers cr
January 27th, 2010 at 4:15 pmhi chris
i have suggested and been looking for ambient tempreature and compass information to be added to the factory guage package for years now (does it exist on the new sled ??), it would be a great option especialy for us trail riders !!!
if yamaha could provide an affordale power steering kit for there past snowmobiles that would be a great accessory for the catolouge !!
doc
January 27th, 2010 at 8:19 pmI think someone forgot to put the pins in (or order them) when doing the warranty work
That bag sounds interesting. With the difference is space and size of the speedo’s apex vs. nytro I wonder if the bag will fit?
We got a load of rain here too, it could have been a foot of snow! Jeeperz. We went off roading in the power wagon tonight and got good and stuck. Not the same as sledin. I got 2 weeks left here!!
January 27th, 2010 at 8:46 pmI am just hoping the 2011 Apex will come in a mountain set up. I love my ’07 Apex MTX SE. I am not really fond of the FX chassis. I like the grunt of the 4 cylinder, in my opinion the Nytro motor is too weak, and the chassis too unstable even for a guy like me that has been riding dirt bikes since age 4 (36 years).
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:37 amI’m looking for a new sled, and recently rode the new Apex at Snodeo in NH March 5-6. Loved the EPS! But I definitely want a long track and was disappointed to find that the Apex XTX with the new rear suspension and 3 more inches of rear travel uses the base model front shock with no adjustments. Do I have to wait for 2012 for an SE version? Would the LTX GT front shocks bolt up? Please advise, and thanks!
The LTX clicker shocks would bolt up as well as the FOX, don’t be too hard on the stockers, they work really good and are rebuildable / tunable in the aftermarket, front stroke is the same on all the variations… cheers cr
March 14th, 2010 at 1:00 pmThanks for the info, Chris! By “all the variations” I’m assuming you mean all three shock types. Interesting – Fox fronts would be cool. Would changing shocks on a new sled affect the warranty? Extended warranty? How’s that XTX SE for 2012 looking?
Thanks!
Jim
Changing the shocks up to those from a related model should not effect the warranty. If you installed something that was calibrated way off of the recommended spec or the wrong length then it may be considered if you were to break a related suspension component but generally shocks are considered a tunable part.
March 14th, 2010 at 11:34 pmAs a side note, all our suspension calibration has been improved dramatically over the past 3 or 4 years. Jeff S is our main calibration guy and under Jim V has brought our suspension full circle. Many of the W-arm failures and other skid breakage was due to calibration (bottoming) in the past, the new sleds are working excellent in most applications cr