January 18, 2010
The Name of the Game
Well it has been really interesting watching the reactions to the comments and sightings of our newest snowmobile. For those who might not have stumbled upon it, we let a select group of customers and some media folks ride a 2011 sled last week without giving away any specifications or details on what the sled actually was. (All that will be released on February 2nd). The whole point was to have them ride the sled and comment on what they actually felt not what they assumed it should feel like which often happens once you are given all the mechanical specs and features.
One reaction I had not anticipated (but in hind sight should have) is in direct reference to calling the sled a ‘game changer’. This term is kind of trendy of late and has been used by a lot of people to describe various products. I’d like to add my viewpoint on this little ‘figure of speech’ and how I think it should apply to motorsports.
I think the traditional ‘game’ of snowmobile product progression is ‘bigger / faster / better’. Ever since the return from the brink back in 1981, the OE’s have been adding horsepower in steady doses to keep sled heads falling off their wallets and it has worked pretty well. Of course the sleds have also gotten bigger and stronger in the process but that has been the name of the game. What struck me was how many people that have said if Yamaha was to build a game changer it would be by adding more horsepower and subtracting some weight. I don’t see how that will ‘change’ anything, it is the same game we have been playing for years.
From my point of view, a ‘game changer’ is based on a design or technology that first, has not been applied to the subject before (in mass production) and most importantly, adds enough value or impact so as to cause a shift within an entire industry. In other words a true game changer should be based on a new idea and cause everyone to react and follow suit in short order.
Yamaha has introduced a few game changers to snowmobiles over the years. The first that comes to mind is ‘Autolube’ oil injection. We were the first but within a couple of seasons all mainstream sleds adopted the technology. Another ‘game changer’ was our DCI or digitally controlled ignition, yep we were the first back around the Exciter 2 / Vmax4 days. This technology allowed the spark to be 3D mapped to help control the combustion over a wide rage of conditions which allowed larger displacement twins and assisted the move to electronic fuel injection, again everyone quickly adopted the technology. There have been many contributions from all the companies over the years: involute drive tracks, plastic skis, independent front suspension, slide rail skid frames, liquid cooled engines, ride forward ergonomics and 4-stroke performance mills just to name a few. Subtle improvements for the most part but very important to the evolution of the species.
But that’s the problem with ‘changing the game’. The product must first prove its worth and then the competition must either copy it or engineer the benefit somehow into their newest offerings. My friend Wade reminded us that we should not use the term ‘game changer’ in reference to our new sled because Polaris had done the same thing last year when describing the new Rush. But was it a game changer? I don’t know yet. The idea of removing the shock from inside the skid frame in order to control the function is a good one. We had that in the Snoscoot and Snosport years ago but no one followed the lead and the idea died (along with a couple of sleds that were far ahead of their time).
Will all the builders start engineering around the patents so to have external shock layouts? Maybe- and if we do then by gum Polaris will have game changer.
Right now it’s just another sled with a different skid frame layout.
Herein lies the rub. It takes time to determine if something is truly a game changer. Until that happens its nothing more than a marketing hook to capture your imagination. Will our newest 4-stroke trail sled prove to be a ‘game changer’?
Personally I really think it will. From the first time I rode it (over three years ago) to watching and listening as people got off it last week… It works so good that I don’t see how our competitors can afford not to react and follow our lead.
Quite honestly… I hope they don’t. Cheers cr
Yes, nowaday’s it pays to be very accurate about what one writes/claim… LOL
The only thing you needed to add was a questionmark; “Game changer?”. Then everyone will make what they want from it…
There sure are some very wild ideas out there of what’s under the hood of this machine. I like it! That’s what’s the greatest thing about this time of year…
Now, go make me a Venture MP with the 130-engine and the TF’s 151″ articulated skid! That’s what I want!
January 18th, 2010 at 1:48 pmwow,that sled that weve seen on ty is not drasticly different looking from the apex but there’s so much new stuff on it to be the hottest 2011 sled,im liking what i see,sometimes,reading on ty is very helpful and people help each others out,but every time new models are unveiled,it turns into a negative atmosphere,people sometimes expect the too much,also,why is it that this year,pictures were allowed before the release date,usually we get a few teasers but not the whole sled,anyway,its very entertaining and i cant wait to get all the specs,i know its gonna be a great sled,they always are,great job cr
January 18th, 2010 at 5:18 pmYamaha got from 1st best selling snowmobile to last place from great light machines as Exciter 440 to clumbsy stock conservative machines as V-Max. When everyone stopped the making of 3-cyl Yamaha was not even in the game. Lake racers was completly dead for many years before Yamaha
Then Yamaha begun to change, the 4-stroke and it was a game changer for Yamaha. But please shave off some weight so you can use it beside the trail.
I have had lots of Yamahas and loved my Exciter 440, my Phazer II, light machines who could beat machines with lots more horses in doze days. I remeber thinking about Pantera 5000 and wonder how they could make a clumbsy machine as that. Today I own an Arctic Cat and wonder the same about Yamaha. Yamaha need a game changer and the Doo’s the Poo’s and the Cats have changed the game, will Yamaha do that?
January 18th, 2010 at 6:14 pmHi Chris, great comments about ‘game changer’ and you capture my thoughts on it exactly. It is after others follow a trend that a true ‘game changer’ emerges. It has been very entertaining, to say the least, to read the forum posts since last Wednesday when we got to ride the new sled. I believe there is technology on this sled that others will immitate or emulate. They do say that immitation is the greatest form of flattery! Based on comments, there are individuals looking for a sled they think they’d like; “more horsepower, less weight” and so on. I’m of the mindset of taking what works, and serves value to a large population and refining it to make it work better year after year. You see this in the automotive industry as well with companies like Toyota and Honda vs. GM and Chrysler.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:12 pmI think there is a ‘game changer’ in Yamaha’s shed for 2011, but that’s just my opinion and of course… only time will tell! Cheers!
I enjoyed your ‘game changer’ comments Chris. That term was flying around off the handle and needed some new perspective.
I also appreciate you showing both sides of the coins going on out there, positive posts, negative posts. Most other (if not all) manufacturers won’t go there, but it creates debate and buzz and that’s good, sometimes it results in good feedback that you won’t get on some survey someone fills out while watching TV at home.
Given all the heavy reading on TY regarding this, folks can find my post about the test ride at the bottom of this page/link: http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=83102&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=ce1bf3c24048febe6ab7696bb3a5c250
Switching sleds, I was thinking about your comment Chris on the Mountain Lite’s steering performance while you were riding it. I went through my manual to double check, but I think i’ve got it set up/adjusted for the lightest steering I can. Can you verify this given my settings of: ski shocks on softest preload, limiter strap all the way out, front track shock set on hardest preload (more to prevent bottoming), torsion springs set on hardest preload (but I know softest would allow more transfer, but then it bottoms too easily). I know new shocks all around are in order and that is the plan for the summer I believe. Anything else I could adjust or is my setup backwards?
Also, when you rode my XTX, did you find some harsh clutch engagement (while crusing/not off the line)? Specifically I find if I am coasting without throttle and then I get back on the throttle the engagement is really hard, almost like the belt is low in the secondary and not rising back up as I coast under less load, so when I apply the gas again (even lightly) she’s abrupt. Wondering if you noticed that, if it all felt normal to you, and if you think there’s a red flag there. It doesn’t bother me enough to go changing clutch parts, but wondering if it is normal.
Thanks again for the riding opportunity and more importantly the chance to meet you in person. It was an awesome day!
Cheers,
Allan
Hey Allan, My comments on your Mtn Lite if I recall were about the ski pressure and steering but I was just getting off the new trail sled. I did get along better with it on the second go round once I learned how it would react to my input. I am thinking now of how it steered, looking at your set up. I might suggest you play around with your front shock pre-load (bump it up) for trail riding, thinking it won’t drop the nose as much on off throttle transfer and may not exhibit quite as much inside lift as it is falling into the outside shock. End of the day its still a fairly narrow stance designed for off trail play, can’t expect it to rail with a good trail sled… on the Nytro I didn’t notice anything unusual with the shifting but I really wasn’t evaluating the fine points was more concerned with keeping a brisk but healthy pace and keeping track of 10 sleds, then nine, then eight
January 18th, 2010 at 9:16 pmcheers cr
I’m surprised and disappointed that Yamaha would try to market a refined DB II chassis as a “game changer”. Polaris already did this with the Rush and it has an innovative rear skid and a different type of chassis construction. Brand new chassis, new skid, new idea. Now that it placed 2nd in Pro 600 in the Red Lake I 500, I’m now convinced that Polaris is on to something. Before that I just felt like it was hype and marketing BS>
In my mind a game changing sled is the original TX-L Indy or the Rev. All it took was one ride to know either of those sleds were hands down better through the bumps and turns than the present models. How in the world is a DB II chassis with the mono going to deliver the ride and handling of a 2010 Cat, Polaris or Doo?
Perhaps the sled should be marketed as a game changer for the solo touring market? That would make sense to me. But, as it is presently being advertised, calling a DB II sled with power steering and a slightly taller seat a game changer is laughable. It is still a lot heavier than the competition and doesn’t use as capable of a rear skid. Seems like it is more loaded up with gee whiz gizmos than performance. That is fine for the street bike touring world, but most guys looking for a game changing sled are interested in performance, not creature comforts.
January 19th, 2010 at 12:05 amHi!
I think some of the hardcore Yamaheads at TY wanted Yamaha to bring a vehicle that would go like the DeLorean when it hits 88 mph. Just in different timezone at lightspeed. Those are the guys who want boost from factory (would be nice though) and hp numbers to puzzle the mind. BUT at the same time they don´t think about the R&D, insurance cost etc. That kind of sled might be in the future, but not in this kind of economy (you can Chris always step in and prove me wrong ; ) ).
IMO that new sled is great for TRAILRIDING. It has 150+ hp, latest tech, seems the handle better than the previous model and looks good doing it. Is it the first over the lake? Don´t know, but there is ALWAYS someone faster (more money put to mods) than you. Some wanted it to look like the Nytro. I personally don´t. Windprotection and long days on that chassis are something that I don´t look forward to.
What is it what I want in my future ride?
Less weight with 4-stroke reliability is one thing. Ski-Doo did it with their 1200 4-tec, so can Yamaha.
Suspension without the fear that it brakes in half when hitting that big one. Ski-doo did it, so can Yamaha. I know that MONO is not for snowcross, but sometimes you just can´t avoid a big bump.
Options from the factory. Like ski´s, tracks etc. I know that most of guys do theese anyway, but it would be nice. Or this just could be the thing here. Anyway, a XTX version would work…
Handwarmers that work. I have hard knuckles and I don´t freeze my hands too often since I use gauntlets alot, but when comparing the warmers on my Vmax-4 theese ones on the 4-strokes are just a joke. You could cook an egg on the Vmax bars if you wanted to.
I´m not trying to bash that new sled. IMO it seems to be a good step in the right direction and a sign of that Yamaha is not sleeping. They are still in the game. Will it change it? Not compleatly, but it will bring new challenges to other OEM´s.
Chris, it must be hard to make a sled that would do it all. Don´t envy you on that one. LOL
January 19th, 2010 at 2:36 amhey cr, great work going on here. Much appreciated. (keep on bloggin’). I can hear the buzz thousands of miles away.
January 19th, 2010 at 10:46 amJust a little echo from the mountains, Yamaha sleds are most predominant, here in the retro department. Heart and soul, not ’tissue paper’ aspirations. Many Yamaha sled ‘mind changers’ ( if I may ), still come out of the corral, and are poised as bench markings to this day. Just compare the other manufactures’s hand book in this case.
I’ll give the shock adjusting a shot. Thanks!
I’m putting together an order of accessories for the XTX and wondering if Yamaha still sells a windshield bag I purchased back in 2007 for my 08 MTX. Its a Yamaha bag with a zipper that velcro-installs on top of the speedo area and sits between the tall windshield and the speedo console. I don’t see it on yamaha-motor.ca anymore. If you come across any info on its availability/part number please let me know.
Thanks!
YK
I’ll see what I can find out for you, but remind me if you don’t hear back… busier than a one legged man at a butt kickin contest, preparing for the OMG release. cheers cr
January 20th, 2010 at 2:01 pmI was just wondering why the gauge from the Apex/Vector haven’t made it to the Nytro yet? The “ATV-gauge” on the Nytro is so cheap looking, and hard to read compared to the awesome Apex/Vector gauge… Is it a cost-issue?
I would say at this juncture it is a cost issue. When in development I believe it was sold to us as being a weight savings… go figure! While we’re on it how about the light weight grip warmer switch
cheers cr
January 29th, 2010 at 1:18 pmown four apex attak miles 2200to4500 broken all slide rails-exhaust-header-pipes-exhaust-joints-three-engines-pistons-problem-front-a-arms-bushsing-wear-out-every-1200-miles-bushings-in-front-frame-assy-for-a-arms-need-to-be-change-every-year-they-break-apart-steering-bushings-wear-out-about-every-1200-miles-had-add-rear-antifeeze-coolers-to-stop-all-of-them-from-over-heating-put-extra-wheels-in-rear-suspension-to-stop-sliders-from-wereing-out-fast-resale-value-stinks-in-new-york-buy-it-new-own-one-year-paid-10.400-trader-value-4600-blue-book-5110-low-cost-operation-if-you-ride-in-canada-on-flat-trails-have-yes-service-on-all-sleds-still-had-pay-out-of-pocket-6.580-new-2011-apex-run-on-91-gas-only-try-to-fine-canada-new-2011-apex-price-15,000-trailer-come-with-that-price
Wow thats a tough read considering it was all one sentence Cumulative maintenance total for four sleds plus some warranty failures (assume the piston, exhaust issues and rail breakage would have been covered) also thinking these are 06 / 07 models, as much of the wear items were dealt with on the newer sleds I hope your dealer helped you sort through the warranty stuff, sorry to hear you had this much bad luck. DCS on the new sleds so no worry about fuel quality. You haven’t posted a question so I’ll take this as some healthy venting, again, the issues you have outlined have all been addressed on the new sleds, hope you stay with Yamaha but understand if you don’t… cheers cr
February 24th, 2010 at 11:28 pm