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	<title>Comments on: EC, HPDI, BBS, SHO, ST, YBTT, OMG!!</title>
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	<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/</link>
	<description>Where sled heads gather to talk about what they love best.</description>
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		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3342</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3342</guid>
		<description>Just today I saw pics of the M9 ski on TY. I think it has potential and I&#039;m sure the test riders have worked it. But, if you want some real world, deep snow, low elevation testing in Alaska, I&#039;m happy to oblige. I think the skis show promise, but I also see foresee that they may have some &quot;issues&quot;. 

Let me know if you are looking for more guys to help in testing. I&#039;ve got a Vector set up of deep snow and a Nytro set up for trail and cross country racing. I&#039;m well versed and familiar with product testing and would appreciate the opportunity to test a factory ski that is as wide as the VK ski but made for performance. The VK&#039;s leave a lot to be desired.
Cheers,
Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just today I saw pics of the M9 ski on TY. I think it has potential and I&#8217;m sure the test riders have worked it. But, if you want some real world, deep snow, low elevation testing in Alaska, I&#8217;m happy to oblige. I think the skis show promise, but I also see foresee that they may have some &#8220;issues&#8221;. </p>
<p>Let me know if you are looking for more guys to help in testing. I&#8217;ve got a Vector set up of deep snow and a Nytro set up for trail and cross country racing. I&#8217;m well versed and familiar with product testing and would appreciate the opportunity to test a factory ski that is as wide as the VK ski but made for performance. The VK&#8217;s leave a lot to be desired.<br />
Cheers,<br />
Scott</p>
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		<title>By: pat the rat</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3330</link>
		<dc:creator>pat the rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3330</guid>
		<description>hey,chris,good post as usual,that outboard should really kick butt,i got a friend with the older vmax outboard on a bass boat,now ive never been on a boat faster than 35 mph but when he gave me a ride this summer at 70+ mph,i almost %?$@%$# my pants,i cant imagine something faster but i guess this new motor will be insane,ok,about the yamcharger,myself,i do alot of pr for yamaha just by talking to friends about how good the products are, alot of my friends ask me questions about yamaha,latest question i got was about the stock warranty,lets say i purchase a new 2010 apex and decide to add the yamcharger,what happens to my warranty,is it void or not,i couldnt answer it but i&#039;m sure you can,thanks cr

&lt;em&gt;In simple terms the warranty policy is quite clear... modify the sled in any way and your warranty is void. In practice the dealer will generally look at the big picture and decide if the failure is related to the modification, for example you rewire the electrical system adding some kind of device in the process and the ignition module burns out... probably not warranty... same scenario and the rear shock absorber seal fails... warranty! In the case of a Yamcharger, you install one and experience an engine failure, the question will be asked -- was it caused by the modification? If the answer is yes... no warranty. If it is something else unrelated most dealers will put through the claim and it won&#039;t be questioned. Really we can&#039;t ask factory to cover failures resulting from the modification of their tested designs. The policy is written to empower our service people to make the final call, no back door. You would be amazed at what some people try to push through under warranty... too bad because it can make things difficult for the honest ones. Like everything else in our society the rules are written to cover the lowest common denominator!...  cheers cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey,chris,good post as usual,that outboard should really kick butt,i got a friend with the older vmax outboard on a bass boat,now ive never been on a boat faster than 35 mph but when he gave me a ride this summer at 70+ mph,i almost %?$@%$# my pants,i cant imagine something faster but i guess this new motor will be insane,ok,about the yamcharger,myself,i do alot of pr for yamaha just by talking to friends about how good the products are, alot of my friends ask me questions about yamaha,latest question i got was about the stock warranty,lets say i purchase a new 2010 apex and decide to add the yamcharger,what happens to my warranty,is it void or not,i couldnt answer it but i&#8217;m sure you can,thanks cr</p>
<p><em>In simple terms the warranty policy is quite clear&#8230; modify the sled in any way and your warranty is void. In practice the dealer will generally look at the big picture and decide if the failure is related to the modification, for example you rewire the electrical system adding some kind of device in the process and the ignition module burns out&#8230; probably not warranty&#8230; same scenario and the rear shock absorber seal fails&#8230; warranty! In the case of a Yamcharger, you install one and experience an engine failure, the question will be asked &#8212; was it caused by the modification? If the answer is yes&#8230; no warranty. If it is something else unrelated most dealers will put through the claim and it won&#8217;t be questioned. Really we can&#8217;t ask factory to cover failures resulting from the modification of their tested designs. The policy is written to empower our service people to make the final call, no back door. You would be amazed at what some people try to push through under warranty&#8230; too bad because it can make things difficult for the honest ones. Like everything else in our society the rules are written to cover the lowest common denominator!&#8230;  cheers cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: low slung</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3328</link>
		<dc:creator>low slung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3328</guid>
		<description>That new outboard is pretty trick,great to see yamaha bring new ideas and products to market.Got a chance this summer to try a demo 700 Rhino FI se,the ride was great.Alot more fun than Hondas BIG RED which i rode last winter.BIG RED is all work,no play.Makes the BIG RED a dull boy.Is there any truth to the stories i read on forums that yamaha was  thinking about dropping snowmobiles in the early part of this decade?I know for a fact they were considering getting out of snowmobile production around the time the first PHAZER was introduced(1984).

&lt;em&gt;Interesting question LS, I started to reply but I think it would be better addressed in a full post, having given it some thought, there is a lot of background to the simple answer... which is yes.  cheers cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That new outboard is pretty trick,great to see yamaha bring new ideas and products to market.Got a chance this summer to try a demo 700 Rhino FI se,the ride was great.Alot more fun than Hondas BIG RED which i rode last winter.BIG RED is all work,no play.Makes the BIG RED a dull boy.Is there any truth to the stories i read on forums that yamaha was  thinking about dropping snowmobiles in the early part of this decade?I know for a fact they were considering getting out of snowmobile production around the time the first PHAZER was introduced(1984).</p>
<p><em>Interesting question LS, I started to reply but I think it would be better addressed in a full post, having given it some thought, there is a lot of background to the simple answer&#8230; which is yes.  cheers cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3324</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 13:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3324</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the response Chris! Sorry to do this to you but I would like your opinion on which sled I should buy. I am coming off of a 2007 MXZ Blizzard SDI and although they are two totally different sleds, I am torn between a 2010 RTX SE and a 2010 Vector LTX GT. I can get a great deal on both, but at demos last year I really didn&#039;t get enough seat time on either to know for sure. I do a variety of riding. Here at home,(upstate NY)it&#039;s a lot of tighter woods running which can get pretty blown-out. I do however usually make a few trips to Quebec each season for at least a couple thousand miles. I would obviously put a higher shield and fuel bags on the SE. At demos the SE suspension package felt nicely compliant and there is a ton of adjustability, the question is can I make it handle for fast groomed trails? Or, is the power delivery and comfort of the LTX a better fit? I prefer short tracks for quicker handling but it seems with four-stroke torque longer might be better??? I will say that I loved my 2007 bomber....all around solid machine but I am done with two strokes. I am riding too many miles and they don&#039;t hold value. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

&lt;em&gt;That&#039;s a tough question and I can&#039;t tell you which sled is better for you. The mono shock on the Vec will exhibit  less kick than the twin shock and superior small bump compliance, the sled is really good at &#039;making the bumps disappear&#039; the transition to standing is not as natural as the RTX, on the front end of things I find the steering more precise and predictable, all it needs is a good set of carbides. On the other hand the RTX allows you to hit the bigger stuff harder and feels bottomless when pushed, the transition and layout for stand-up riding is excellent and the sled loves to be throttled through the bumps, pre-load the suspension and blip the throttle to time the hits... lots of fun. The FX front end is definitely &#039;busier&#039; than the RX chassis but can be dialed a lot of ways as you mentioned. I do believe for a high miler on mostly groomed (Quebec) the Vector is the better choice, it will survive rough trails quite well at surprisingly high speeds and is definitely the best handling trail sled we make, but I&#039;m an old guy, if I was 34 I&#039;d probably say screw it and by the Nytro for the fun factor. Equal riders on fast trails I&#039;ll give the nod to the Vec to get you home first especially on a long haul. Sunday afternoon trails for a hundred miles of suffering... Nytro all the way... cheers  cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the response Chris! Sorry to do this to you but I would like your opinion on which sled I should buy. I am coming off of a 2007 MXZ Blizzard SDI and although they are two totally different sleds, I am torn between a 2010 RTX SE and a 2010 Vector LTX GT. I can get a great deal on both, but at demos last year I really didn&#8217;t get enough seat time on either to know for sure. I do a variety of riding. Here at home,(upstate NY)it&#8217;s a lot of tighter woods running which can get pretty blown-out. I do however usually make a few trips to Quebec each season for at least a couple thousand miles. I would obviously put a higher shield and fuel bags on the SE. At demos the SE suspension package felt nicely compliant and there is a ton of adjustability, the question is can I make it handle for fast groomed trails? Or, is the power delivery and comfort of the LTX a better fit? I prefer short tracks for quicker handling but it seems with four-stroke torque longer might be better??? I will say that I loved my 2007 bomber&#8230;.all around solid machine but I am done with two strokes. I am riding too many miles and they don&#8217;t hold value. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p><em>That&#8217;s a tough question and I can&#8217;t tell you which sled is better for you. The mono shock on the Vec will exhibit  less kick than the twin shock and superior small bump compliance, the sled is really good at &#8216;making the bumps disappear&#8217; the transition to standing is not as natural as the RTX, on the front end of things I find the steering more precise and predictable, all it needs is a good set of carbides. On the other hand the RTX allows you to hit the bigger stuff harder and feels bottomless when pushed, the transition and layout for stand-up riding is excellent and the sled loves to be throttled through the bumps, pre-load the suspension and blip the throttle to time the hits&#8230; lots of fun. The FX front end is definitely &#8216;busier&#8217; than the RX chassis but can be dialed a lot of ways as you mentioned. I do believe for a high miler on mostly groomed (Quebec) the Vector is the better choice, it will survive rough trails quite well at surprisingly high speeds and is definitely the best handling trail sled we make, but I&#8217;m an old guy, if I was 34 I&#8217;d probably say screw it and by the Nytro for the fun factor. Equal riders on fast trails I&#8217;ll give the nod to the Vec to get you home first especially on a long haul. Sunday afternoon trails for a hundred miles of suffering&#8230; Nytro all the way&#8230; cheers  cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: sledfreak</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3323</link>
		<dc:creator>sledfreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3323</guid>
		<description>So, the new replacement Apex is called the V-Max?

&lt;em&gt;Well now I figure if we were going to replace the Apex the best thing to call it would be a new Apex. If we were going to build something all new perhaps Vmax would be a nice retro handle. It&#039;s awfully difficult to find a new name these days but you never know...  cheers cr&lt;/em&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, the new replacement Apex is called the V-Max?</p>
<p><em>Well now I figure if we were going to replace the Apex the best thing to call it would be a new Apex. If we were going to build something all new perhaps Vmax would be a nice retro handle. It&#8217;s awfully difficult to find a new name these days but you never know&#8230;  cheers cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: bagadonitz</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3320</link>
		<dc:creator>bagadonitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3320</guid>
		<description>Thanks again.

If you really want to give the BBS some punishment send it down here for a week from mid February through to the end of March.  I have a lot of holidays to use and I&#039;m sure I could find someone to ride my FX Nytro in the mean time.

&lt;em&gt;okay Mr. donitz... now you&#039;re scarin me ;-)
cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>If you really want to give the BBS some punishment send it down here for a week from mid February through to the end of March.  I have a lot of holidays to use and I&#8217;m sure I could find someone to ride my FX Nytro in the mean time.</p>
<p><em>okay Mr. donitz&#8230; now you&#8217;re scarin me <img src='http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: bagadonitz</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3319</link>
		<dc:creator>bagadonitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3319</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that.  I&#039;m on Newfoundland&#039;s Avalon Peninsula where nothing short of a miracle is required for a decent snow fall before mid January.  I&#039;m going to wait to get a set of these and use my stockers if I&#039;m blessed with snow before then.

Sorry one more question.  Will carbides from a stock Yamaha ski fit?  I have a set of Bergstrom skegs that have a lot of life left in them yet that would be nice to reuse?

Thanks for the additional info.

&lt;em&gt;Very doubtful that the Berg&#039;s would fit, might be possible if you were willing to drill holes but I would not recommend that. You&#039;ll have to wait and check out the new skags against the Bergstroms, maybe your dealer will give you a trade towards the new ones?  BTW, I love Newfoundland, awesome country and the nicest people going... cheers cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that.  I&#8217;m on Newfoundland&#8217;s Avalon Peninsula where nothing short of a miracle is required for a decent snow fall before mid January.  I&#8217;m going to wait to get a set of these and use my stockers if I&#8217;m blessed with snow before then.</p>
<p>Sorry one more question.  Will carbides from a stock Yamaha ski fit?  I have a set of Bergstrom skegs that have a lot of life left in them yet that would be nice to reuse?</p>
<p>Thanks for the additional info.</p>
<p><em>Very doubtful that the Berg&#8217;s would fit, might be possible if you were willing to drill holes but I would not recommend that. You&#8217;ll have to wait and check out the new skags against the Bergstroms, maybe your dealer will give you a trade towards the new ones?  BTW, I love Newfoundland, awesome country and the nicest people going&#8230; cheers cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: bagadonitz</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3318</link>
		<dc:creator>bagadonitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3318</guid>
		<description>Can you give any details at all on the ski?  Particularly width and a rough guesstimate at the cost in Canada?

I&#039;m converting my 08 FX Nytro RTX to a cross over this year and the only thing left to do is change out the stock skis.  I&#039;m precariously close to ordering some Slydog Powder Hounds but I really liked the look of the M9 from the little I&#039;ve seen.

Any details you can shed to help me wait a little longer?

&lt;em&gt;The ski is basically 9.5 inches wide with an hour glass shape which translates to 7.5 inches at the spindle. the weight per ski is around 1.5 lbs (w/o runner). The runners will be sold separately in 3 in or 6 in carbide versions. Price for skis will be in the 150 range and runners in the 60-90 range CDN$. Note these prices are ball park only but the specs should be fairly close. Personally I think they will be an excellent cross-over ski as they should have great flotation at that width and are reported to have very good on-trail handling characteristics. They are also quite light aiding in the &#039;unsprung&#039; weight and steering effort benefits... hope this helps, don&#039;t think you&#039;ll be able to get your hands on any until early January but I&#039;ll update on Sled Talk as soon as I hear anything... cheers cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you give any details at all on the ski?  Particularly width and a rough guesstimate at the cost in Canada?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m converting my 08 FX Nytro RTX to a cross over this year and the only thing left to do is change out the stock skis.  I&#8217;m precariously close to ordering some Slydog Powder Hounds but I really liked the look of the M9 from the little I&#8217;ve seen.</p>
<p>Any details you can shed to help me wait a little longer?</p>
<p><em>The ski is basically 9.5 inches wide with an hour glass shape which translates to 7.5 inches at the spindle. the weight per ski is around 1.5 lbs (w/o runner). The runners will be sold separately in 3 in or 6 in carbide versions. Price for skis will be in the 150 range and runners in the 60-90 range CDN$. Note these prices are ball park only but the specs should be fairly close. Personally I think they will be an excellent cross-over ski as they should have great flotation at that width and are reported to have very good on-trail handling characteristics. They are also quite light aiding in the &#8216;unsprung&#8217; weight and steering effort benefits&#8230; hope this helps, don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll be able to get your hands on any until early January but I&#8217;ll update on Sled Talk as soon as I hear anything&#8230; cheers cr</em></p>
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		<title>By: snoguzzler</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3317</link>
		<dc:creator>snoguzzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 17:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3317</guid>
		<description>I think there are alot of people like the Supertrax writers who like to bash &quot;heavy&quot; Yamaha four strokes but if given the choice would actually ride them ahead their own 2 smokes. It says alot that a sled I hear rummblings about being old and needing to be replaced etc. wins the all around best sled from Supertrax. That tells me it&#039;s still miles ahead of the rest!!
Feel the Yamaha Thunder!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are alot of people like the Supertrax writers who like to bash &#8220;heavy&#8221; Yamaha four strokes but if given the choice would actually ride them ahead their own 2 smokes. It says alot that a sled I hear rummblings about being old and needing to be replaced etc. wins the all around best sled from Supertrax. That tells me it&#8217;s still miles ahead of the rest!!<br />
Feel the Yamaha Thunder!!!</p>
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		<title>By: DoktorC</title>
		<link>http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/12/03/ec-hpdi-bbs-sho-st-ybtt-omg/comment-page-1/#comment-3316</link>
		<dc:creator>DoktorC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=908#comment-3316</guid>
		<description>Any chance of a Blue Blog Outboard (BBO)?? I&#039;ll BMOB (bring my own boat)...and host a BBQ for the YSB!!

FYI tunnel boats are for pansies :).

&lt;em&gt;Good idea!
Agreed, mod V&#039;s rule for fun... but there is something about the stability in the rough  at 100 plus that I find appealing. Not everyone is capable of standing on a 2x4 perched on a bowling ball in the back of a pickup going up the 400 ;-)  cr&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any chance of a Blue Blog Outboard (BBO)?? I&#8217;ll BMOB (bring my own boat)&#8230;and host a BBQ for the YSB!!</p>
<p>FYI tunnel boats are for pansies <img src='http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p><em>Good idea!<br />
Agreed, mod V&#8217;s rule for fun&#8230; but there is something about the stability in the rough  at 100 plus that I find appealing. Not everyone is capable of standing on a 2&#215;4 perched on a bowling ball in the back of a pickup going up the 400 <img src='http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   cr</em></p>
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