November 20, 2009
YMUS Visit – Blog SLed
I am writing this post at 36,000 feet, jetting home from California. Seems an odd place to go for snowmobile discussions but that was only part of the agenda for our pow-wow with YMUS. This was my first official meeting with the senior staff of YPAD (Yamaha US parts and accessories division) and I wasn’t quite sure what to expect.
These guys have been on quite a roll of late, introducing many new lines of accessories to their dealers. In a rather unique fashion, they have established themselves as a distributor for select brands offering multiple products outside of the genuine Yamaha label. The benefits are many as they can now offer dealers a much wider selection of products with superior service than they will get anywhere else which ultimately translates to better service (and value) for Yamaha customers.
The gentleman heading up the division is a rather unique individual himself. I assumed (falsely) that he was a normal Yamaha So Cal resident, (well as normal as anyone living on the fault line is). Stoked on motorcycles, ATV’s with wide axles, surf”n sand and no real concept of snowmobilng outside of the fact that they are really cold. Turns out I was right on one count, Mo Murray is stoked on motorcycles alright, the faster the better.
His current post at the head of YPAD affords him access to the ‘big show’ and he has penetrated the MotoGP circuit -on several continents- with his camera gear and pit pass. His personal website says it all, check out some of his photography of the worlds top riders in action, up close and intimate.
To make matters more interesting it turns out that Mo and I know many of the same people within the snowmobile industry, a result of his former role running the Skidoo race team after Tom Rager left Doo for Polaris. He spent a lot of time in Quebec and even moved his family there for a period, prior a reassignment with the Seadoo racing division before moving to Yamaha (if you can’t beat ‘em…) . I was even wrong in assuming his roots were deeply American, he’s as Irish as Bono 
I am always impressed with the quality of people who work for Yamaha. It seems most folks leading the charge for team blue have premium petrol in their veins. The passion for motorsports, be it racing or just riding runs deep in our corporate culture and is the fuel behind much of the companies accomplishments. Mo has surrounded himself with a talented, like minded team which is reflected in the advances being made south of the border.
I am bringing home with me a brief case full of ideas and a trunk full of new challenges for us here in the great white north.
I need to give you a quick update on the Blue Blog Sled. It’s in our shop getting ‘greased up’ and ready to roll. Okay so RJ’s idea of a tune-up is a little excessive but the motor is not being touched. 
We have had some excellent candidates stepping up or being recommended for the miserable task of riding it for us. I’ll be going through all the comments with the goal of breaking out a short list of test pilots and a schedule which I’ll post here and continue to update as we go.
On another note, our latest Redline e-magazine referenced Sled Talk in one article mentioning that I was dropping hints about a new model forthcoming in February… really! that was news to me. Well you know how rumors go. Totallyamaha was all over the topic with 9 pages at this count and I can tell you no one has nailed it entirely in any of the predictions, if in fact we are going to release something new at all. But if we did, I found pretty much everything on my wish list buried somewhere within that post. Having said that, I guess I just dropped a hint, giving the more skeptical guys another reason to denounce the excitement as ‘manufactured marketing hype’ most sure to disappoint…
Stay tuned, cheers cr
You must have had Nicklebacks…Rockstar playing in your headphones…”join the mile high club at 37,000’”!
So –what’s a 1k feet at the height?
Speakin of PWC’s ..racing…is it true your standup cannot be sold in NY as well as California?
Your mention of a chassis tune-up….looks pretty aggressive in the pictures…
YEP!!
cr
November 20th, 2009 at 12:38 pmIt seems its all quite on the western front for 2011 yamaha sled info?Will the model line-up get smaller due to a model out-performing an existing sled?(trick question).Got a feeling the phazer will be around for a while in its current form(missed a chance to ride one 3 years ago,still kicking myself).
Hey LS, is the western front somewhere around Cornerbrook in your world??
November 20th, 2009 at 7:29 pmHere’s a little insight, the recession has hit all of the SMB OE’s in a big way 9no secret), consequently the $$ required for R&D / new model development are extremely scarce… the well has dried up. Now for the positive side, any new models would require a minimum of two years and in most cases three to bring to production. I figure there is a chance that any one of us could release something new this season because it would have been well under way before the bottom fell out and am willing to bet that 2012, 2013 will be the driest years… just my .2 bits, cheers cr
Glad your home safe, out of the skies for the one millionth time.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:48 amCool to include the office boys. Oh and those “Blue Sled’ swept tail pipes have DNR written all over them.
Keep up the great blog.
That video was gold.
It’s great to hear you came away with so many positives from your trip south.
I haven’t spent any time speculating on a model release, but wondering about power steering in the mix, probably not..yet.
I’m under the gun with 4 weeks before I load the sleds up and head to Ontario – trying to find out if GYTR ski shocks off the Phazer GT will bolt into my Mountain Lite, along with both rebuildable rear shocks found on the Phazer RTX. I’ve got everyone I can calling up the ladder to find out so I can get them on order and installed before I head south. The ones I have called it quits after 9000 km’s.
Cheers,
YK
Hey YK, I’ve been meaning to check into this for you. I’d consider contacting the guys at Pioneer in Quebec as they are the guys to rebuild / revalve if you snag a set that fit but are not calibrated for the Mtn Lite… don’t forget the blue blog sled, if you want to try an LTX Vec cheers cr
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 amChris,
I seen one Nytro at the Toronto Sled Show with HINDLE exhaust. Is this an option in the furthur for the Nytro?
Good Blog! Keep up the good work.
Mark
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:59 pmChris, I’ve exhausted contacting dealers about the shock upgrade. Nobody I spoke with has any specs to see what could fit in the mountain lite’s rear end. I’ve semi-confirmed (without specs) that GYTR’s off the 2010 Phazer GT will fit up front on the MLITE, but everyone says I’d have to experiment throwing anything in the rear because I haven’t found a dealer who’s done it. It is a little frustrating for the dealers who were on the phone with Yamaha Motor CA in Toronto who also had no specs to look up for us. As for Pioneer, what’s their contact info? I’m having no luck on google or yellow pages. We also tried a couple aftermarket companies with no luck!
Cheers!
YK
Sorry I was responding from home (memory), meant to suggest ‘Factory ‘Connection Canada’ http://www.factoryconnectioncanada.com 8194770555. I’ll make a couple of inquiries for you with our testing engineers… cheers cr
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pmNothing avail. for rear end from Factory Connection Canada. They offered me the fox float 2′s up front though for $1042 for both, but they don’t have them in stock, I don’t think they’d get here in time, i’d rather go with the GYTR’s anyway for the front. Looking forward to hearing what your contacts come up with, you’re my only hope – i’ve called all over the place
Hey YK, Phazer GT/RTX will work in the center (rear / front)……I would go with the center from a RTX 2008 or newer. Before 08 it was pretty soft.
For the rear/rear the eye to eye is 437mm and the closest we have to this is out of the Phazer (Venture) MP at 434mm
For the front suspension the eye to eye is 394(gas cell) and 392(aluminum HPG) again the 2008(and newer) Phazer GT shocks will work here…..
It appears the European spec Mountain Lites got the Aluminum / take apart shocks not sure what spec but generally theirs are set up firmer than North American. The Euro set-up would be my first choice but not easily accessible, you might ask ‘Ike’ to check into this for you, he posts on here and on TY frequently.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:09 pmWhere else in the industry will a top man at a company go to these lengths to help a customer on the ground? Chris, you are the greatest. The other big 3 could learn from you! First, thanks a million for this, where nobody else could get answers, you did, and quickly at that, I appreciate the time you take to help all of us out.
One more question, the “36mm KYB HPG, Aluminum” out of the 2010 Venture MP – is it rebulidable? I got that listing off yamaha-motor.ca and I notice the 2010 Phazer MTX is listed with a “36mm KYB HPG” (but it doesn’t say aluminum) – any difference between the two? (okay that’s more than one question)
I am trying to confirm but my gut tells me the mtn lite ‘HPG’ will be steel body with welded cap, generally only the Al bodies are take apart. I also want to confirm the MP has the good ones, may well be same as Europe for common spec which would offer a good alternative for your PZ… stay tuned
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pmAdd: I also didn’t realise until now that the 2010 Phazer MTX comes with a “36mm KYB HPG” as well, where as my 07 MLITE came with the gas cell. I notice the rear travel specs are different between 2007 and 2010 though, but this should fit? It would be a better shock…
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 pmYellowknife, I´ll get on the phone tomorrow (now 16.30 PM today) and start seeking the rear shocks for you. Is WP shocks ok if I can´t find the GYT-R / Yamaha ones?
And again , Chris, you´re the man.
Ike
November 24th, 2009 at 9:24 amyes Chris they are right you are the man this i have known for a long time.Gonna come out west and ride with us this year?
dunno, do they still brew Kokanee out there?
cr
November 24th, 2009 at 2:29 pmChris, thanks again.
I have some potientially devistating news regarding my Nytro. It was in for a bunch of external maintenance, when they completed that and tried to start it, the engine went ‘click’ and they say the pistons contacted the valves. They are tearing it down to find out what’s going on. Pending the outcome, I’m worried it won’t be up and running before I need to leave for the trip Dec. 18th. Hello Blue Blog sled? lol
November 24th, 2009 at 4:37 pmChris, I checked out a stock 2010 Phazer MTX. It does have a steel body with welded cap, not even sure its HPG. Regardless that answers that question. I had a look at a Venture Lite and it had the aluminum t/a’s in it, but no compression adjustment. Ike has done a lot of digging for me and there’s some options there, but he needs more time.
Troy (at force one) and thomas are wondering if being 3mm short on the length for the rear shock (if I go with the venture MP’s shock) will be too much and i’ll wreck the shock by over extending it.
I really had no idea this would be so complicated.
On the Nytro front, Troy confirmed that the timing chain is skipping over the cam shaft gears, so he thinks the timing chain tensioner has called it quits. If there’s a potiential positive to pull from this, it didn’t fail while the machine was running, it failed on an attempted start-up. He will be tearing it down to see if there’s valve damage. The 3 pistons are still going up and down properly. Fingers crossed this is a quick fix with parts readily available.
There’s only one conclusion here, the conditions I ride in are too extreme for any engine 2 or 4 stroke that i’ve ever tried. The Phazer died at 7000 km’s and now the Nytro at 9000 km’s. I expected 10′s of thousands of km’s out of these engine’s, like a car motor, but I just can’t win. I’M CURSED
Geez YK! some guys have all the luck, lets hope the head is ok. Can’t understand why the tensioner would pack it in regardless of conditions.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:59 pmOne thing you may have already considered, your posts always refer to mileage as a base line. I think you will find after your visit to our trail system, that there is a big difference in your miles and ours or should i say ‘hours’.
For you to do 100 miles, I’ll do 200+ simply because the trails allow me to cover a lot more distance in a lot less time than cross-country riding / trail breaking, secondary to that, the groomed trails are much easier on the drive train (often harder on suspension).
I maintained back in the day, that mountain riding would show up the weakness in drive systems (clutch’s, belts etc. ) much sooner than trail riding. I am willing to bet that 10,000 YK miles are equal to or greater than 25,000 CR miles especially when it comes to the drive…
cheers cr
Chris, I agree with your assessment.
I have an update regarding shocks and the Nytro.
Nytro first, the timing chain tensioner is confirmed to be the cause of the failure. When the tensioner is engaged to take up chain slack during operation, it is failing and the chain is actually skipping over the cam shaft gears. There’s good news; since the failure occured on attempted start up and not under acceleration or idle for that matter, all of the engine components checked out in A1 condition. The inside of that motor looks amazing. They did a leak down test and got 18% on all 3 cylinders. The warranty request is in, and the parts are on order. It’ll be about $800 in parts alone, and about 8 hours labour with 4 hours already invested.
As for shocks. The demand is a 437mm shock that is rebuildable and has compression adjustment. I haven’t been able to find anything that fits those specs. I’ve gotten close, but haven’t been able to confirm specs because they are so hard to find or non-existant. I’m out of time so i’ll have to order the stock shock. I don’t want to run the risk of ordering a shock that blows because it is a few mm too short, or doesn’t fit at all because of misinformation. Hopefully everything comes together shortly for both sleds.
Thanks for all your help! and yours too Ike!
Cheers,
November 26th, 2009 at 5:55 pmYK
Hey, Yamaheads help a fellow snowmobiler in need, right?
Too bad for your Nytro. No motor failures here far as I know. And those machines take a beating here. Skids, front bulkheads etc. does seem to brake here. But we don´t have that kinda cold temps for long periods here, thank´s to the Golf stream on the Atlantic.
Last year´s SE was the first Nytro to hold up here in rough. Previous ones broke rails, skids, front A-arms etc. Our trails are just that rough (and the rider kinda unforgiving LOL). And I won´t even go to the mono… It´s just not made for our kind of rough trails with 3ft moguls in them. In smoother trails and over lakes and peatlands it´s the best suspension ever.
Ike
November 27th, 2009 at 1:04 pmHey Chris – does Yamaha Canada offer an online OEM Parts site like Yamaha USA?
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx
I was checking out the Yamaha Canada website, I think I’ll take my shot at sending in a resume.
Cheers,
November 29th, 2009 at 2:53 pmYK
I’m just hogging this entire topic, but for those of you out there who want to look up OEM Yamaha Canada Part Numbers, you can visit forceoneyk.com and click on the Parts Fiche. It was right under my nose all this time.
Also, it turns out my ‘blown shock’ is more than that, its a busted suspension bracket. The good news is the replacement part is beefier and available/on order.
Carver Performance out of the U.S. is swearing that the rear track shock out of the Phazer RTX will fit the MTX. They also offer Ohlins that are the same measurement.
On another question, do the RTX’s from Yamaha come with the Fox Float 2′s or the first go round of Fox Float’s? I found the price of them to be much cheaper than any other shock, thus the question.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:39 pmHey Chris, I heard a rumor that Ohlins is getting out of the snowmobile business? Any truth to this? I also thought that Yamaha still had a minority stake in Ohlins?
Thanks,
Andy
Hey Andy, had not heard this one yet, I’ll have to make a couple of inquiries. Yamaha sold their interest back to Ohlins a couple of years ago. (YMC had about a 30% interest if I recall). They have no current OE supplier agreements and the SMB biz is shrinking, I can see why they might stop investing. They are a great company with an excellent product. I understand they just came on line as a major sponsor with our motocross world teams. cheers cr
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pmNytro Engine Update:
I have really great news, and I really don’t know how to repay the people I owe this news to. Despite the timing chain tensioner being backordered, a combined effort from my dealer Force One in Yellowknife and Chris Reid/Yamaha Canada managed to find one for me and it is being shipped our way which should be enough time to get it installed before I leave for Ontario.
I can’t say enough good things about the support I get from all of the above people and those of you online. Situations that could easily leave me sledless for months are always backed up by hard work from the dealer floor right up to the corporate level. Without this support I’d have a lot less seat time.
I’ll say it again and again, never ever have I seen a dealer and manufacturer step in to assist a consumer so much. The backing I get and all the support is appreciated BIG TIME and there’s just no way ‘thank you’ feels like nearly enough, but I owe you guys, so THANKS!!
YK
Hey YK glad to hear you are up and running but I cannot take any of the credit on this one, I did have your back with a contingency but what happened was an example of our dealers working together. Our system allows dealers to communicate and helps them to locate products when the need arisies. In this case Paul and the good folks at Wildwood Sports had the tensioner in stock and offered to part with it for. It was your dealer Force One, who put it all together, just another advantage of being part of the Yamaha family
cheers cr
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 pmI liked the video!
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:09 amThanks for the back story Chris, I sent a thank-you off to the folks at Wildwood Sports. I also brought coffee and donuts into the folks at Force One this morning (delaying production, as Doug put it, in the process!)
And, as I wait for parts on both sleds, I managed to snag a weekend of test riding on a 2010 Polaris Rush. I’ll need to find time to write a review!
Cheers,
YK
Looking forward to reading your ride impressions of the Rush, I have always wondered what it would have been like if we had continued to develop the SnoScoot / SnoSport and made them a bit bigger…
cheers cr
December 3rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm“I have always wondered what it would have been like if we had continued to develop the SnoScoot / SnoSport and made them a bit bigger… cheers cr”
That’s funny! I’m also curious to see how it performs in the real world. I just don’t buy into the hype that it is as revolutionary as IFS or the Rev. Looks like another way to build a mouse trap.
December 3rd, 2009 at 9:09 pmChris, my ride review of the Rush is available at http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=80113
Now i’ll have to do a review on the XTX
Interesting write-up YK. For the record, Yamaha has always measured the rear suspension travel taken from the center of the rail in a vertical line. Some other OE’s measure the rear axle travel.
December 15th, 2009 at 2:42 pmDepending on the skid design you will get different numbers measuring the font rail, center and rear, generally speaking the rear axle will yield the biggest number. Measuring the shock stroke is not the answer as the geometry and linkage designs are not constant from one suspension to the next. I think your ‘bunometer’ comment is more important, if you bottom too easily and struggle with small bump compliance at the same time then you have a real problem, doesn’t really matter if it 12 or 14 inches… remember what what they say “it ain’t whatca got… its how ya use it! cheers cr