Comments on: Bonneville Salt Record http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/ Where sled heads gather to talk about what they love best. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:27:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3289 Mike Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:36:18 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3289 Just finished installing one here in Moncton N.B.This is a flawless install without any problems a great kit from Gforce. Now all that we are waiting for is snow. This is a great fix for our current apex but i am still waiting for 180hp apex out of the creat from Yamaha. Just finished installing one here in Moncton N.B.This is a flawless install without any problems a great kit from Gforce.
Now all that we are waiting for is snow.
This is a great fix for our current apex but i am still waiting for 180hp apex out of the creat from Yamaha.

]]> By: Angus Gillingham http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3210 Angus Gillingham Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:03:18 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3210 CR, This is one option,"The Sledstart",as long as the machine idles long enough to replentish the used battery amps used for frequent starts I guess.The other problems may well be worked out in time because it is not an impossible task to adapt a machine to extreme conditions.I have some ideas on this and I think I will start working on those.Thanx for responding to this urgent need. Angus (Doc) Gillingham CR,
This is one option,”The Sledstart”,as long as the machine idles long enough to replentish the used battery amps used for frequent starts I guess.The other problems may well be worked out in time because it is not an impossible task to adapt a machine to extreme conditions.I have some ideas on this and I think I will start working on those.Thanx for responding to this urgent need.
Angus (Doc) Gillingham

]]> By: Angus Gillingham http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3205 Angus Gillingham Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:53:05 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3205 I have been working on all types of vehicles for the past 30 or so years and have been a very dedicated mechanic to the learning aspect,new tech release,upgrade learning of all newer technology etc and feel as though I should get something off my chest here.I have spent the last 7 years around the Arctic regions of Canada and have seen a dramatic increase in the unrealiability of snowmobiles since the 4 stroke has been introduced up here in this region.I understand completely that the population of 38,000 people is not going to make a big panic at the OEM top levels of development and research,but feel that the concerns of the persons living here and buying the latest technology in vehicles should be addressed though.What I have seen with the development of four stroke snowmobiles,in my personal oppinion,is the transfer of all technology used on road vehicles used in the populated southern regions of north america just simply added to a fourstroke engine in a snowmobile and it has not been working well at all in this colder climate.I am the person in this small town who is depended on,and I feel like the only one,to answer any and all questions pertaining to the problems with those newer machines so I have been studying the problems as they arise and find that the same problems that the road going vehicles,cars,trucks,etc,have here in the north are the mostly the same problems being had with the 4 stroke snowmobiles and other 4 stroke atv's. The main problems I find with those machines here in the Arctic are as follows; very hard to start because of the extreme cold causing voltage drops in inadequate batteries and thereby resulting in a lack of power to turn over the engine and at the same time activate the mass of relays used in the systems. (2)I have seen new machines that have shut down because of wire coatings snapping off and breaking wires around the handlebar region of the wire bundles.(3) the base oil getting so cold that the engine will not be free enough to turn over with the available power.Yet again,in springtime the locals find that the aircooled machines run much to hot and the watercooled run much better in this time of the season.(4) MAF sensors cause a lot of problems here in the extreme cold and sometimes get filled with moisture causing problems.(5) the cooling resevior is in a bad place on the snowmobiles for this region because of the terrain being windswept leaving small rocks exposed on the surface which in turn punchure the resevoir because of a lack of protection in that area being at such a low point on the machine.(6) there is no manual starting option on the engine which can leave a person stranded in a harsh enviroment.(7) the OBD technology should be tested more in colder enviroments so as to have an optional machine to choose from just for this region of the world because even if the cost of this machine is a little more,at least there will be a high Arctic model to chose from. Those are some of the main problems I am finding with the newer four stroke machines up here in the high Arctic where we are having temperatures every day here in the -25 to -65 range all winter,and any machine which will work fairly well in the southern regions would have many more issues here.It is going to take a bit more cooperation between the OEM's,mechanics,and customers before this gets to be worked out and until then I personally will and cannot suggest a person buy a 4 stroke snowmobile up in those cold regions of the north,but when I see a setup that will work I will be the first on board to push this technology.Lives are at stake up here and I am going to answer questions put to me with complete honesty. <em>Hey Doc, your points are well taken, I can remember one season back in 75 when I spent 5 months on the pack ice off-shore of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellef_Ringnes_Island" rel="nofollow">Ellef Ringnes Island</a> (near the magnetic North Pole) in a portable seismic camp practically living in a Bombi. We never shut any engine off for any length of time instead they would be fueled before bed and idle all night. Minus 65 with no breeze is not an exaggeration, been there , got the T-shirt! I will pass this along and post my experience with the new remote starter <a href="http://www.sledstart.com/" rel="nofollow">available from Sledstart </a> It has a temperature function that will automatically start the sled and idle it until heat soaked then shut off and repeat as necessary. Would be a very good thing for the high Arctic I'm thinking. Thanks for the input.. cheers cr</em> I have been working on all types of vehicles for the past 30 or so years and have been a very dedicated mechanic to the learning aspect,new tech release,upgrade learning of all newer technology etc and feel as though I should get something off my chest here.I have spent the last 7 years around the Arctic regions of Canada and have seen a dramatic increase in the unrealiability of snowmobiles since the 4 stroke has been introduced up here in this region.I understand completely that the population of 38,000 people is not going to make a big panic at the OEM top levels of development and research,but feel that the concerns of the persons living here and buying the latest technology in vehicles should be addressed though.What I have seen with the development of four stroke snowmobiles,in my personal oppinion,is the transfer of all technology used on road vehicles used in the populated southern regions of north america just simply added to a fourstroke engine in a snowmobile and it has not been working well at all in this colder climate.I am the person in this small town who is depended on,and I feel like the only one,to answer any and all questions pertaining to the problems with those newer machines so I have been studying the problems as they arise and find that the same problems that the road going vehicles,cars,trucks,etc,have here in the north are the mostly the same problems being had with the 4 stroke snowmobiles and other 4 stroke atv’s.
The main problems I find with those machines here in the Arctic are as follows; very hard to start because of the extreme cold causing voltage drops in inadequate batteries and thereby resulting in a lack of power to turn over the engine and at the same time activate the mass of relays used in the systems. (2)I have seen new machines that have shut down because of wire coatings snapping off and breaking wires around the handlebar region of the wire bundles.(3) the base oil getting so cold that the engine will not be free enough to turn over with the available power.Yet again,in springtime the locals find that the aircooled machines run much to hot and the watercooled run much better in this time of the season.(4) MAF sensors cause a lot of problems here in the extreme cold and sometimes get filled with moisture causing problems.(5) the cooling resevior is in a bad place on the snowmobiles for this region because of the terrain being windswept leaving small rocks exposed on the surface which in turn punchure the resevoir because of a lack of protection in that area being at such a low point on the machine.(6) there is no manual starting option on the engine which can leave a person stranded in a harsh enviroment.(7) the OBD technology should be tested more in colder enviroments so as to have an optional machine to choose from just for this region of the world because even if the cost of this machine is a little more,at least there will be a high Arctic model to chose from.
Those are some of the main problems I am finding with the newer four stroke machines up here in the high Arctic where we are having temperatures every day here in the -25 to -65 range all winter,and any machine which will work fairly well in the southern regions would have many more issues here.It is going to take a bit more cooperation between the OEM’s,mechanics,and customers before this gets to be worked out and until then I personally will and cannot suggest a person buy a 4 stroke snowmobile up in those cold regions of the north,but when I see a setup that will work I will be the first on board to push this technology.Lives are at stake up here and I am going to answer questions put to me with complete honesty.

Hey Doc, your points are well taken, I can remember one season back in 75 when I spent 5 months on the pack ice off-shore of Ellef Ringnes Island (near the magnetic North Pole) in a portable seismic camp practically living in a Bombi. We never shut any engine off for any length of time instead they would be fueled before bed and idle all night. Minus 65 with no breeze is not an exaggeration, been there , got the T-shirt! I will pass this along and post my experience with the new remote starter available from Sledstart It has a temperature function that will automatically start the sled and idle it until heat soaked then shut off and repeat as necessary. Would be a very good thing for the high Arctic I’m thinking. Thanks for the input.. cheers cr

]]> By: Tony Smieja http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3172 Tony Smieja Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:05:19 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3172 Trying to reach Darren LeBlanc... saw he was searching for a Jr. Snocross sled and we are building them....snoscoot based, 4-stroke, full custom suspension, fast and light. Sorry, I just can't seem to find any other way to contact Darren. Thanks! The bolt-on direct drive turbo is ingenius and will sell like crazy. Nicely done! Tony Trying to reach Darren LeBlanc… saw he was searching for a Jr. Snocross sled and we are building them….snoscoot based, 4-stroke, full custom suspension, fast and light. Sorry, I just can’t seem to find any other way to contact Darren. Thanks!

The bolt-on direct drive turbo is ingenius and will sell like crazy. Nicely done!

Tony

]]> By: Geoff http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3164 Geoff Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:06:54 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3164 I'm very interested in this product, but having trouble getting around the potential ecu issues. I have riden sport bikes for years and typically mods=powercommander if you want it to work properly. There was a huge diff in my R1 when I added the PC3R and had it custom mapped. I ride my 2006 Apex below 2000' elevation. Will I actually realize an improvement without modifying the ecu and fuel delivery? The air is already nice and dense around here lol! Also, I already have to carry spare relay cause this is a known weakness in this model. <em>According to Gilles, relocating the airbox sensor to atmosphere causes the ECU to default to a sea-level map (actually slightly below) which is enough o richen things up to compensate for the extra 02... cr</em> I’m very interested in this product, but having trouble getting around the potential ecu issues. I have riden sport bikes for years and typically mods=powercommander if you want it to work properly. There was a huge diff in my R1 when I added the PC3R and had it custom mapped.

I ride my 2006 Apex below 2000′ elevation. Will I actually realize an improvement without modifying the ecu and fuel delivery? The air is already nice and dense around here lol! Also, I already have to carry spare relay cause this is a known weakness in this model.

According to Gilles, relocating the airbox sensor to atmosphere causes the ECU to default to a sea-level map (actually slightly below) which is enough o richen things up to compensate for the extra 02… cr

]]> By: Bob Hogg http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3148 Bob Hogg Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:14:04 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3148 Of the 2 choices - the Vector…but a stock Apex from the few I’ve ridden ….is the one for Ontario trails. We have never trail ridden or raced anything but engines in their “as they were delivered” configuration…Yamaha has always had the HP…always. The last time I heard a similar exhaust note to the Apex, was when Lorna and I used to watch the boat races in Dunnville…(that’s the only race format she would ever attend with me) the big mercs running close to shore with muffled 2/ exhaust - well – they just made HP…just like the Apex… For me – a few holes drilled around the Apex chassis….here and there ….to slightly move some things - for my preference…and I’d be very happy. I was talking with an ex turbo Apex owner a few weeks ago…and he was aware ….and is scheduled to get a SC on his Nytro..dealer installed. Of the 2 choices – the Vector…but a stock Apex from the few I’ve ridden ….is the one for Ontario trails.

We have never trail ridden or raced anything but engines in their “as they were delivered” configuration…Yamaha has always had the HP…always.

The last time I heard a similar exhaust note to the Apex, was when Lorna and I used to watch the boat races in Dunnville…(that’s the only race format she would ever attend with me) the big mercs running close to shore with muffled 2/ exhaust – well – they just made HP…just like the Apex…

For me – a few holes drilled around the Apex chassis….here and there ….to slightly move some things – for my preference…and I’d be very happy.

I was talking with an ex turbo Apex owner a few weeks ago…and he was aware ….and is scheduled to get a SC on his Nytro..dealer installed.

]]> By: Ron http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3104 Ron Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:22:28 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3104 Excellent! Excellent!

]]> By: Ron http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3093 Ron Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:56:02 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3093 Any idea on a time frame for G-Force setup(i.e. this season next season)? Honestly I think this is a sweet setup especially for us that don't have huge incomes or want huge credit card bills. I have been toying with the thought of an MPI SC or a turbo setup but for the type of terrain I ride (bushwhacking, boondocking) that is a lot of money for the amount of true use it would get, but another 20-30 horses for this kind of money would be just right. <em>Hey Ron, They are now in production and Gilles will be shipping in November. He asked that contact is made on line through G-force and prefers to deliver through Yamaha dealerships in Canada but will accommodate American sales directly. I am waiting for him to return from Bonneville to update the subject. cheers cr</em> Any idea on a time frame for G-Force setup(i.e. this season next season)? Honestly I think this is a sweet setup especially for us that don’t have huge incomes or want huge credit card bills. I have been toying with the thought of an MPI SC or a turbo setup but for the type of terrain I ride (bushwhacking, boondocking) that is a lot of money for the amount of true use it would get, but another 20-30 horses for this kind of money would be just right.

Hey Ron, They are now in production and Gilles will be shipping in November. He asked that contact is made on line through G-force and prefers to deliver through Yamaha dealerships in Canada but will accommodate American sales directly. I am waiting for him to return from Bonneville to update the subject. cheers cr

]]> By: sledfreak http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3090 sledfreak Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:51:50 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3090 Hey Chris, what can you tell us about this new ski. http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=75743&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 <em>I will post some background on this shortly. IMHO The Haydays showing and print release may have been a bit premature (note: we have not released anything on these skis in Canada yet) but if all goes to plan, this ski will offer a viable alternative to the other XO skis on the market. cr </em> Hey Chris, what can you tell us about this new ski. http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=75743&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I will post some background on this shortly. IMHO The Haydays showing and print release may have been a bit premature (note: we have not released anything on these skis in Canada yet) but if all goes to plan, this ski will offer a viable alternative to the other XO skis on the market. cr

]]> By: Ron http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2009/09/02/injection-is-cool-but/comment-page-1/#comment-3076 Ron Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:09:25 +0000 http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/?p=774#comment-3076 This is exactly what we need! Could we also get a Yamaha programmer like the 2010 YZ450F too? Can this be done with no modification to the hood? I really don't want to start hacking on the hood of a $10K plus machine, plus no hood mods+true "sleeper"! <em>The programmable ecu is just now hitting the radar, I anticipate it will be a while coming for snowmobile, there is a small mod for the hood but it is reversible as far as I understand and will still be 'sleeper'</em> This is exactly what we need! Could we also get a Yamaha programmer like the 2010 YZ450F too? Can this be done with no modification to the hood? I really don’t want to start hacking on the hood of a $10K plus machine, plus no hood mods+true “sleeper”!

The programmable ecu is just now hitting the radar, I anticipate it will be a while coming for snowmobile, there is a small mod for the hood but it is reversible as far as I understand and will still be ‘sleeper’

]]>