May 6, 2009
Is It Snowing Yet?
We were locked down in the boardroom for a couple of days last week with our friends Todd, Wade, Andrew and Eric from YMUS . Our objective was to establish a ‘one voice’ snowmobile strategy with Canada and USA working closer than we ever have before. As the old saying goes when the going gets tough… the tough gets going. So pull up a stump and I’ll give you some background.
I’ve known Todd for a long time now. He came on board back in the Coon Rapids era as a research and planning guy. His impact was quickly felt as the data he produced became a large part of the ‘product plan’ and international debates regarding our new model development. He was also the first fellow officially appointed to monitor the emerging new world of the Internet, watching for trends and information relative to the sno-mo biz. Now-a-days Todd finds himself sitting at the helm as we navigate through these difficult economic times. Gotta hunch those days in Minneapolis seem far away now…
Then their is Wade our (by my standards) relatively new marketing guru. Let me tell you beneath his mellow exterior facade lurks an animal who, once behind the bars of a Nytro, becomes unleashed, wreaking havoc upon the trail but I digress. Wade comes to us from a deep background in the magazine publishing business with many years invested in snowmobile. Judging from some of his sixty dollar words and quick rebuttals I would have to guess the man has himself quite an ‘edumaction’ as well.
I mentioned some ‘young guns’ in my last post, well Andrew qualifies as one of them in his position of product manager for the U-crew. Another young man with a lot on the ball. Brains, athleticism and passion for motor sports makes for a potent cocktail and ‘Drew has copious amounts of them all.
This was the first time for me to meet Eric but I doubt it will be the last. I never got a lot of his background but when the conversation turned to finding exotic motor parts he sparked to life. Something about his rare factory R7 Superbike and the Euro contacts he had made… Eric is in command of the US fleet of demo ride teams and trade show exhibits, a huge logistical challenge in itself.
We had an extensive agenda that focused largely on our 2011 models and all the preparation which goes into a new product line introduction.
Things like photography and video shooting, advertising and support materials but before that we needed to develop our ‘message’ and strategize the best way to deliver it all. So much of what we do can be looked at as ‘traditional’ and the template 
we use is predictable as hell. I think we all want to try to move the needle and do things differently and to that we explored some new ground. It’s no big secret that much of our prior marketing has been very ‘feature’ or tech related, speaking to our 4-stroke direction and Yamaha technology but outside of our ‘Johnny Skeptical’ bits and Jimmy Blaze’s antics, its been pretty dry. We have sat back and let team yellow blow the weight issue way out of proportion to the point they have managed to eclipse many of their own shortcomings, sigh…
And so here we are, a bunch of regular guys who love motors, tracks and wheels looking to break the mold and shift gears uphill into who knows what. The results will have to speak for themselves and with any luck I can revisit this post sometime in the future and say ’see, we did it!’
On day 2 we divided up into smaller groups with Todd, Andrew, Jon and I focused on the future product plan and Tim, Bryan. Eric and Wade drilling into the marketing. As all good meetings do we ended up in a favorite local watering hole for supper and exchanged some lies. I mentioned the SX Viper story that I still need to post on the blog and Todd was able to refresh my memory on several points which led us back to Paxson Alaska and the guest who thought his girl friend was hold up with one of our test pilots. The poor engineer awoke to a screaming two-stroke engine as the guest chain sawed the door open, looking for his girl. Good thing she wasn’t in there (gotta love Alaska). That was the same year that practically the whole crew was food poisoned and one guy got lost in a whiteout on Summit Lake nearly perishing in the storm…
Conversation moved back to our favorite brews and I mentioned my fave Wisconsin bevy Leinenkugels. Well Todd in his infinite carbonated wisdom was quick to point out the hier of this 140 year old brewery rides, you guessed it, a Yamaha Apex. Turns out they spent a blurry evening exploring some awesome joint marketing ideas but Todd can’t remember any…
We saw the the boys off to the airport last Friday and have made the commitment to hold regular update vid-con meetings and my email folder is already swollen with American influence. Let me know if you are interested in our progress or if you would like to have any of the US guys make a guest post here on SledTalk. I made them the offer but as you may have surmised they are a little shy!
cheers cr
cr, thank you for a great post.
May 7th, 2009 at 11:03 amour sled year was great,
going into overdrive for
lifting boats
Thanks again for the heads up
Yes, most definitely.. I would like to hear from both sides of the border. It helps us as consumers knowing that Yamaha Canada and USA are working together with the same goal in mind, which is, to make the best 4 stroke snowmobiles on the planet, reguardless or where we live or ride. Were snowmobilers….. We want the most powerful, best ride and handling snowmobile. We already know that we have the most reliable sleds built to date over any other OEM.
Andy
May 7th, 2009 at 12:03 pmChris,
I would happy to here some Yamaha input from the boys down south.
Good post.
Mark
May 7th, 2009 at 3:49 pmChris,
Nice update. Thanks.
Don’t let the product planning group forget us Groomed Trail/Traditional/Older in years/Handling orientated, riders. I happen to fall intoin all four of the above groups as are many of my fellow riders.
I drove my wifes 2007 Vector a few times this year and added a Supercharged 2005 RX1 with Ohlins up front to the stable.I must admit I prefer the seating position and handling of those two sleds much more than my Apex GT.
Maybe we need drop down air suspension like I have in my ML 550 Sport Ute in one of the Luxo sleds. I hit a button and the supension drops 3 1/2″ and valving goes into sport mode on the truck. It goes from a capable offroader [ditch banger] to near BMW car handling [slot car trail sled] with a touch of a button.[Yah I know probably unrealistic but a fella can dream can't he?]
The 2010 Vector GT almost has it all. Not to keen on the higher seating position. IMHO, lower would be better for a trail sled.
As an aside, a confirmed Doo buddy of mine was commenting that he was not all that impressed with his 800 XP handling vs his Mach Z as it was too light and too high in his opinion. [ He had rolled the XP twice this year vs never on the Mach ] You are right, light is not always a good thing. Depends on the application.
Off topic. Any chance you could comment on the chain tensioner issue on the 05-07 Vector engines from a YMCA perspective. This worries me a little as I ride a lot with only my wife and would hate to have her 2007 Vector grenade on her 80 miles from the trailer. It seems dealers are handling it in different ways in the States from what you read on TY but nothing much coming out of Canada yet.
All the Best,
Dave Weyman
Thanks Dave, you have probably figured out that I fall into the same classification of rider as you. One of our dealers (Yamaha Motorsports Pickering) is experimenting with a lowering kit for Vector that transforms it into a slot car, especially interesting when they add boost.
I am adamant that out next new snowmobile platform should be the best handling trail sled ever to carve a corner and also the best snowmobile we’ve ever built, lofty goals but certainly worth a try. I would not suggest to our engineers that this be accomplished using specifics like light weight, low seat height, CG or anything else, we must simply drive the target message and support the meaning (benefits) of what constitutes ‘best handling’ in a top performing sled, there are things out there that no one has tried and technology yet to be developed… stay tuned.
I’ll check on the Vector tensioner for you as I don’t recall the issue… Cheers cr
OK, I dug a little on the cam chain tensioner question. The part has been updated on newer sleds from a mechanical unit to a hydraulic tensioner. There have been a couple of engine failures connected to the mechanical system and it is still under investigation. In the event of a failure the dealer will have to inspect and report to service, who will make the decision whether or not it is covered. That would explain some of the differences being discussed on TY. I checked the part and it retails for 123 bucks Canadian for the hydro update… If It was me and I had a high mileage Vector out of warranty I would seriously consider the peace of mind purchase of an updated part (8GL 12210 00 00), that’s not to say we won’t cover the engine out of warranty but that can be a bit of a crap shoot. IMHO For the cost of a single carbide it will never be an issue.
cr
May 7th, 2009 at 4:41 pmGreat story Chris. Glad to hear that you are keeping me in mind with the Viper story. Tell the US guys that this does get some American traffic, and I’d love to hear from them. BTW, What’s the deal with Jimmy Blaze, since you brought him up? Is he still a Yamaha guy or did he switch to that other brand?
Jimi is still hitting it hard but the bar is getting pushed so high for the extreme cream I can’t imagine how he soldiers on. He is basically a free agent now and uses whatever he can get his hands on. I believe the Yamaha relationship thinned based on ‘perceptions’ and legal opinion related to implied endorsement potential… remember the system seldom holds people accountable for their own actions these days… cr
May 7th, 2009 at 4:55 pmBeing from northern Minnesota, I don’t really consider myself to be be from the “south”. I do, however, check this blog regularity. TY just doesn’t do it for me and I really like the posts you put up Chris. I like the idea of the “southern” (US) input since there isn’t anything like this on our side from a Yamaha rep (at least that I’ve found). Although I’m trying to get my corn crop planted, my heart is waiting for sledding season again. Thanks for your time and this blog.
Ose.
Thanks Ose, guess I gotta stop saying you guys are south of us, I think in terms of where I am in relationship to the border…
. seriously, I think they’ll get into the space eventually but there are a lot of internal perceptions and hurdles to be overcome in the interim. Traditional marketing is all about developing your message and feeding it to the masses repetitively through controlled vehicles such as print ads, video and point of sale. Any individual discussion or comment is generally held private and not exposed for all to hear and comment, then this dang internet thing comes along and messes everything up, what to do, what to do…
May 8th, 2009 at 11:17 pmI keep bugging the YMUS guys about joining in on the ‘conversation’. I figure as soon as they find a way to control the internet and program their customers with the correct POV, it’ll be safe to come out and participate
I hope your corn takes well and mother nature provides a good crop, our fields, down south around here are still too wet to work, been the wettest April on record… cheers cr
Always enjoy your postings Chris. You are a great asset to Yamaha. I am curious if Yamaha is addressing the need for a new backcountry platform? The XTX is a great ride for wandering off the groomed trail but certainly not too far! The VK is a great workhorse proven for years. But the market appears to require a off-piste machine that can get you to those hard to reach destinations in a various snow conditions. A new 20 wide is due. Any news in it’s arrival???
Thanks, I can’t comment on what we are developing but I feel the VK Pro is too much machine for some applications. We still have a good demand for the original VK 540 wide track and I think the market would support something new in that class (albeit slightly more modern). The XTX is more of a sporty dual purpose machine that could benefit from a more aggressive track if it was focused on ‘off-trail’ but we know the majority of usage is on trail as you indicated so there is a compromise. Easiest thing for us would be to offer another XTX variant closer to a mountain sled. A new wide track is a bigger project but feasible. The current economic downturn will have a lot of bearing on how quickly and aggressively we approach new model development… cheers cr
May 9th, 2009 at 7:30 pmChris, with your response to riceburner… I for one like everything you said about the best handling sled on the market. That being said, I believe the rider forward is the best idea that has ever been introduced to a snowmobile. I don’t think I could handle going back to the old school of where my knees are touching my elbows as I ride and my tailbone now becomes the main contact point on the seat of the sled. I can’t speak for everyone, but big power is nice, but good power with an awesome ride amd handle likes it’s on rails is what people want for trail riding. Power is only good if you can use it, but if you are fighting an ilhandling sled, then the power is only good for lake racing/short drags.. I like doing both trail riding and drag racing.
On another note with reguards to handling is that Yamaha really needs to focus on shock calibration. It really seems to be off quite a bit compared to other OEM’s. I also contribute this as one of the main reasons as to why these sleds don’t handle like some of the competition does. I want SRX handling and ride like my Apex GT. We should be able to get this from Yamaha. All of the other OEM’s really seem to be hitting in this area. I hope your driving force helps Yamaha deliver a sled that has the entire package.
It’s good to hear that you have our backs..
Later,
Andy
Thanks Andy, as they say there is more than one way to skin a Cat (or a poo or a doo). I think the assumption of going to lower seat height to get handling is the point… it’s better to stay focussed on the ‘handling character’ without jumping to the ‘how-to’s’. I wouldn’t want to go back to having my my knees in my chin but at the same time I don’t think we could go much higher or forward than the current Apex. You are right about calibration to a point but many forget we have been changing a lot of settings every season. The new Vector really does handle awesome (especially f you dial it with upgraded carbides) I have a lot of confidence in what I have been seeing lately, lets just hope to economy recovers soon and we can once again focus on advancing the product. cheers cr
May 14th, 2009 at 1:06 pmChris, Here’s some reading for you over on TY. I’m not to concerned about the HP portion of this post, but definitely has some good points that I feel should are important. It’s a small post, but I think is some interesting points out there and not just from me. I think it’s worth monitoring.
On another note, Do you know if the Vector guage off an 09 or 2010 will fit on the Nytro as far as the wiring goes and if all functionailty of the guage will work on the Nytro including the clock/tach etc..
Thanks,
Andy
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=73999
May 15th, 2009 at 8:31 am