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February 8, 2008

Nytro XTX Launch

Well it’s been an interesting week. I finally made it home from Minocqua after an unplanned vacation in Minneapolis, 25cm of snow in Toronto closed the airport. And so it was, the Mall of America; a chicken wing sampling of local cuisine and cultural experience. I kinda felt sorry for those young ladies in their summery orange and white uniforms working in such drafty conditions, brrrrr πŸ˜‰ Anyway, glad to be home and getting caught up.

There were lots of mixed reactions to the introduction of the new Nytro XT-X on the forums and I had to smile thinking back to last April when I as much as said we would build this snowmobile in my post “Careful What You Ask For’ and sprinkled some more hints in the ensuing comments . What you should know is the sled was originally planned to launch as a 2010 model with the possibility of a longer and/or deeper lug track (amongst other things). The overwhelming response we heard on the new Nytro was ‘wheres the 136’er?’ So it was decided to push the XT-X development to hit 09 and design it to be more trail-able than some of the other sleds in this class… more cross-country than cross-dresser.

The tipped up rails and Ripsaw track, along with the clickers and second generation front suspension all came to be, based on your feedback. No its not a 136 inch but it does offer everything you asked for and then some, but the proof is in the pudding. I have not had a chance to ride it yet but Jon has and I asked him to hit me with an e-mail describing his saddle time. After reading it I asked him if he was trying to ‘spin it up’ but he assures me his enthusiastic report was from the heart and he really did like the sled a lot.

I’ll be quite honest here when I say; personally I wish we had not ‘hyped-up’ the unveiling of the new sled in advance, it leaves far too much to the imagination. Whoa, new engines, new chassis, turbo-chargers, laser guided suspension…oh the suspense!

I think it would have been very cool to have quietly put the info up on the corporate web-sites with some good photos and specs and simply said; ‘You asked for it …Well here it is’ then sit back and let the web do its thing. Take this with a grain of salt as my marketing ideas are generally non-conventional at best and there are still a lot of people that want the head to head comparisons with all the ‘glitz’ traditional marketing can offer. Me? I prefer to hear it from a trusted friend, so here’s what Jon had to say. my-first-xtx-ride.doc.

While I’m at it I might as well say we haven’t built any of these sleds yet, pre-production is a few weeks away and production, a few months. Will there be any updates or changes to what we currently know? I would say thats highly likely. The season is still young and we are constantly gathering market information and uploading to YMC. The testing team is still really busy and the race team is still racing, (where do you think the camber /caster geometry change came from anyway?). Our sleds will continue to improve every year and you will continue to beat on us to improve… ‘may the circle be unbroken.’

cheers cr

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39 Responses to “Nytro XTX Launch”

  1. Dane Morrison(aka morrisond) says:


    Will you have some sort of update kit available to update 08 Nytro’s to the new Geometry at some semblance of an reasonable cost?

    Also any ideas on ’09 pricing yet? It’s time for you guys to be an leader and stomp on Doo. Adapt US pricing and you’ll gain an lot of marketshare.

    Hey Dane… you’re going for the throat on this one… in a nutshell, the generation 2 front end won’t be an update kit, at least as far as I know. Don’t know what the individual parts will entail $$$. The Canadian pricing is still an issue that is under a lot of debate and scrutiny… buddy I don’t have the answers for you on either of these counts, give it some more time to confirm… cheers cr

  2. scott says:

    I’d like more info on the generation 2 front suspension. It didn’t appear to be beefed up at all whle the factory snocross sled is and a number of XC racers are doing it themselves (although some are doing it better than others as some of the reinforcements are doing more harm than good).

    I think a GYT-R race prep kit would be a good seller. Sell it to racers for cost and make it avialable to trail riders with the usual overhead and profit built in like any other accessory.

    Other than the XTX appearing to be a parts bin sled, it their another reason why the factory didn’t stretch the dual shock rear skid to a 136? The CK suspension is not as robust as the dual shock. I cracked the front arm in my ’05 Vector.

  3. Darren says:

    I 100% agree with ya, Yamaha hyped the “new” sled way to much…..I set my alarm for 3am release to only be VERY disapointed for getting out of bed….the following day after I had time to calm down for Yamaha getting me out of bed for a Nytro “Long track”. I realised that this is a really COOL sled. and maybe exacly what I’m looking for in my next ride. But don’t hype the small changes again, they did the samething with the ATV’s and it just leaves people disaponted.

    What I would like to see for a real cool launch would be a “Live” web cast intraducing the new iron to the puplic….now that would be cool…

    P.S. Please be fair to the dealers and the Canadian buyers and get that Canadian Pricing in line with the U.S. I think our dealer have suffered enough.

  4. DoktorC says:

    The XTX is going to be a home run…that sled fills a VERY important hole in the line-up and the chassis/suspension developments are going to pay dividends. I for one have always wanted the 144 but didn’t want the understeer that came with it..problem solved!

    I was asked by a buddy why I’d want a 144 in Ontario…well more then 50% of my rides this year have been in overwhelming (for a 121) powder. Now, Rexy gets through it but we’re WORKING and that tipped 144 would just cruise through it.

    The internet is a hard place to succeed in…especially when we (the consumer) create so much hype that it’s impossible to meet expectations…seems to be the same every year.

    It’s becoming VERY clear to me that I may bleed blue too much lol…

  5. Mike W. (Tork) says:

    what people cant seems to understand is even with a par dollar, you may have to charge more in Canada.

    The 2 countries have different corporate tax rates

    It is not just sleds that support the 2 North American companies.
    Most of that is done with Motorcycles, ATV’s and watercraft not sleds.
    Canada has about 1/10th the population if I remember correctly, so it might be a fair assumption that Canada has 1/10th the gross revenues vs the US.

    So not only is the cost of doing business higher, the costs of the units price out higher to pay for the infrastructre of Yamaha Canada because less units are sold.

    I am happy with the new Nytro model, probably the most requested sled on TY is a 165 HP Apex that sheds 15 lbs πŸ™‚

  6. Ike says:

    I like the 144Β΄sled a lot. “a full mountain Nytro” is a bit too much for my kind of terrain and riding, but this one is right on the button. Only if it can take (which I think it can) 1,5 inch / 38mm or a 1,75 inch / 44mm lug track.

    A new front geometry… Hmmm… where have I heard that one…. On the forums perhaps.



  7. Dane Morrison(aka morrisond) says:


    Thanks for the reply. I know that
    parity might be out of the question, but if you could get within 10% that would be nice. Be an price leader now and you have an significant opportunity to take market share.

    At least change your parts and accessories pricing. It is very easy to buy from the states and have it on your desk in 2-3 days. Our local dealer has lost out on $3,000 in parts and clothing this year. We feel bad about it but we saved $1,500.

    Thanks Dane, I’ll be sure to point some eyes towards this on Monday, nothing they haven’t heard already but good to keep it top of mind… cheers cr

  8. Carl says:

    According to Maxsled: “his machine is a triple-crossover with the handling of a 121, the stability of a 136 and the off-trail capability of a 144.”

    The Nitro XT-X will be perfect for so may riders. A sled that can do it all, unbelievable! It will be a hit I’m sure.

  9. Fred R. says:

    The crossover concept with the Nytro is right on. It fills a void that alot of people were looking for. Where the mixed reviews are coming from is what the XTX left out. Namely a larger gas tank, storage and better skis. If Yamaha is claiming this to also be a all day trail sled then why weren’t these items addressed? If these were added there would no debate and everyone would be toughting this as the best crossover. The forums are full of people asking for these changes for along time. Why didn’t Yamaha delivery a sled EVERYONE would have thought was a home run not just 50% of riders?

    The tank is difficult, we can’t just slip on a bigger tank, the whole sled would require engineering review changes and testing, the skis and storage do need to be addressed in my opinion, which apparently isn’t carrying all that much weight these days πŸ˜‰ I will continue to remind anyone who will listen to me… cheers cr

  10. rxwhopper says:

    i think this new sled is what peaple wanted.good job. I have somethin to say though is i hope they make the little things more like they were years ago.like replaceable bearings in bogie wheels !!!! i am just going threw my 06 attak this week. all the skid bearings are shot and need new wheels beacause the bearings are not replacable.. In canada the price of the rear wheels are 80.00 each and the small ones are close to. Price that out compared to 6205 bearings.I tell you what i was cursing the one thing that i brag about the most. yamaha.

    we’re pushing to get the replaceable bearing tires back, I think some will show up in 09 models, to be confirmed… thanks cr

  11. parepadarappa says:

    If it’s true that “we haven’t built any of these sleds yet” what did they use for the videos? Also, PLEASE talk to someone in marketing about the videos, It really is a toss-up between theirs and ski-doosas far as who’s videos are more lame. This strategy might work well in the ATV or bike segments, but the majority of snowmobile riders know that turning a key is easier than pull starting a sled. I have owned all Yamahas and will continue to into the future, but please, stop treating me like I’m retarded and have no idea about sleds.

    Ben from Da Soo

    Hey Ben, I was referring to production machines, the videos were shot using prototypes, in the case of XT-X much of it is based on 08 production with fabricated parts for areas that are being changed. Production is not yet final.
    As far as the video stuff goes, I hear you loud and clear. It’s why I refer to it as traditional marketing: our marketing guys spend a bunch of money to make movies, we tell everyone how much better we are than the others guys, the sales guys get to feel all warm and fuzzy and hopefully you get entertained if not enlightened and delighted by our efforts… are you actually telling me you don’t believe everything you are fed by marketers? I’m devastated! BTW you referred to some of the stuff our competitors have produced… I think we’re actually going easy on you! cheers πŸ˜‰ cr

  12. Mark W says:

    I really hope Yamaha will make an update kit for the 08 Nytros, Obviously you guys found some adjustments needed to be made to improve the handling of the sled. I’ve struggled this entire season so far to come up with a setup and alas no luck so far πŸ™

  13. Justin says:

    Saw the comment on the storage, and in my mind this is a major concern. I just added the saddle bags to my nytro RTX and they were much needed. What a difference! Looking through the other things, showing some appreciation in the “gen 2” subframes would be great. Those who had the 08’s who bent them, for the betterment of everyone who gets the next ones, should be compensated, at least in my eyes. Yes, I know its expensive, and yes, I know you have to go out and replace all your old subframes, but think of the PR. We complain night and day about being used as ‘beta testers’ for the sleds while paying full price, imagine the word of mouth if you fixed the problem and promised the new part to the people who did all the work and went through all the trouble and hardship to report it. Man, that would be unheard of in this world of “my manufacturer just builds it and forgets about its customers. This sucks, if only I didn’t love snowmobiling so much!”. Man, I might never buy another brand again! (from a guy who LOVES the new skidoo 4 stroke.

    Sorry for the long rant, I’m just glad you’re willing to listen. The company that listens to one customer seriously is MILES ahead of a company that waits for a majority to complain before they think of addressing the problem. I’m not tellin, I’m just sayin. πŸ˜‰

    No worries Justin, but please don’t confuse the gen 2 geometry with the sub frame, this was a not a durability change and has no relationship to stuff getting bent, that is still under investigation the results of which will determine what action is required… cheers cr

  14. blueballer says:

    Hi Chris,
    1st off, I really like the new XTX. But,can you please elaborate on the 11 changes that were made to the front end. I’ve seen: relaxed caster, new spindles, shorter a-arms, new tie-rods, & new ski rubber. Just curious as to what the other changes are and if I can install them on my 08 piece by piece as needed.
    I’m still hopeful Yamaha will come through (with a front end kit)and take care of their 08 customers just like they did with the Canadian rebates!!
    Careful what I ask for, right!!

  15. Nytro40th says:

    I would like the option of a aftermarket suspension kit to update my 08 to the 09 specs. I think Yamaha should offer an update, at my cost mind you. As I know Yamaha will not pay to change everyones suspension geometry, but please offer a update. Otherwise love the sled. Keep up the good work.

  16. Bakemono says:

    I kind of had to laugh at some of the people who said the XT-X is nothing new (“its just a longtracked Nytro, big deal” or used the little smiley of the guy yawning).
    Apparently they dont realize what rail extensions do to rear suspension geometry and didn’t notice the fact that the XT-X has the new front suspension.
    “Our sleds will continue to improve every year and you will continue to beat on us to improve… β€˜may the circle be unbroken.’”
    Just as it should be. Just ask Polaris, Ford and GM. Those who don’t continually work to move forward get left behind.

  17. Mark says:


    I am very excited about the new Nytro for sure and in general, very well done. Before this baby goes into production, please, re-consider modifying the handle on the tough to operate reverse, adding new ski’s ( a must), and trying to get a bit more capacity in the 09 fuel tank.??? I know you can only do so much, but thought I owuld add my name to the list of people who want these changes badly. thx,


  18. Doug A says:

    I also hope the front end changes are passed onto 08 owners free of charge. Obvisously people have complained to have the sleds re evaluated. If they were right out of the box you guys wouldn’t have changed them. IMO I think the suspension setup and front end design was rushed to the market before enough R&D was done on it.

  19. Kim says:

    Wow. Interesting stuff. I want a new xtx but what concerns everybody else; concerns me ie. fuel tank, ski’s, deeper lug track and maybe a grab bar. Like different suspension packages offered there should be special order sleds that offer different skii’s, track lug depth maybe exhaust options. I think it is possible to do and would make a lot of people happier when they pick up there machine and there is no extra cost to ad this or that. Tracks are a prime example; when you want an uprade you get nothing in return for your new unused track plus you get to pay labour.
    Storage – I rode with a guy that has an xp, sometimes you don’t have a choice. Anyway that bag that buckles to the tunnel is the way to go; probably only work for the xtx and mountains but an idea any way.
    I have an attack GT and love it. I am wondering would I be happier with a lighter xtx. I am in a spot I love playing in the powder and putting the machines on there sides and just playing. I also like the power on the trail when you hit a roller and squeeze the throttle; you know the power that lifts the machine. I like the 150horses no doubt, but I want it a little lighter with a 144″. Tell me will I miss the 150hp or does the lighter chassis make up the difference in ponies? thanks for your time.

  20. Erik says:

    I agree with the front end geometry shanges. The sled is good most of the times but then BAM it almost trows you of it in a corner. To unpredictable imo! But very fast and I love it! The better geometry would be a big help for me to love it eaven more!!!! Please make an update kit!!!

  21. Jeff says:

    Another great looking sled for sure.

    I just hope, as the owner of an 08′ RTX that some of the changes geared toward handling are made available to us as well as a beefed up subframe. I bought this machine because of the reputaion for reliability of Yamaha but the ever evolving geometry of my sled’s front end is a concern. On top of that the shimming and wear bar changes I have had to make to get it rideable on hardpack (groomed or not) are a tad much. Other then that, with 1000 miles on it now it has really come to life and the gas milage gets better and better.

  22. tool_man says:


    Love the open forum format, it’s nice to believe the factory takes an interest in the riders opinions/thoughts. I like the XTX, a 136″ wouldn’t have done it for me. I am very happy with the MTX, subtle changes and it’s a definite winner. My concern is msrp on the sleds/accessories. I have been a longtime Canadian buying from the US to save money on the parts and accessories. And this year bought a sled, I would rather support my local dealer but with the difference in price I just can’t until it’s corrected (not par, but better).

  23. Todd says:

    Hi Chris,
    Need a subject for a future blog? How about “Damned if you do, Damned if you Don’t.” I for sure am reading enough “damned if you do” I don’t know how you guys keep a positive professional attitude after reading many of the posts on the forums and here on your blog. One year you are beat up for not having a long track version of the FX Nytro, the next year you made it to long. One minute Yamaha makes the best snowmobiles and the next minute shame on them for not putting a 2″ paddle track on the new XT-X crossover sled. That new sled should have had this, that and the other thing done two years ago gets very old with me fast. Yamaha or any other manufacture for that matter should not DEVELOP sleds, they should just have them ready to ride by noon. And any changes that are made to next years sled should be made available to me at no cost. Heck, why doesn’t Yamaha come out with a turn in program that allows you to just turn your one year old sled in for the next model year? I think a reality check for many is needed, or maybe I need a vacation from the perpetual complaining on the internet. I am even tired of hearing XP owners complain about their many issues with the flyweight sleds!! I don’t want to speak for you Chris but gees, the last time I checked Yamaha makes some very good mountain sleds with taller lug tracks and grab bars, and if a 144″ rear skid is too long, well then I would point you to several excellent 136″ and 121″ rear skid machines that Yamaha offers.

    When I was riding last week in Quebec, my 06 Apex GT was darting some. I went through a set of hyfax in some hard running on hard packed trails. Then it snowed a lot and the trails loosened up and I wondered why did I stud my track and add extra carbide to the skis? I never knew if the sled was going to rail or drift all crossed up around a corner. Then loading my sled on the trailer, I had to lift the rear end to move it over a little, and damn it was heavy. Who cares!! I had a blast that week and was smiling at every opportunity I had to crack the throttle on the trails and race down the lakes. In the end I would not have changed a thing. Thanks for making the best big Canadian trial sled ever. Oh yeah, while you are at it “fixing all the problems the Yamaha sleds of the future have” could you plese fix the pizza up there and put the pepperoni on top of the cheese!!!

    Double Cheers!

    Thanks Todd… I needed that!! πŸ˜‰ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ cr

  24. Ronald Teig says:

    I hope Yamaha will get on the ball with the lower HP mountain sleds. I just traded my wife’s 2007 Phazer Mountain Lite for an RMK 600 HO 155. While the Phazer may be a great trail sled, it is really lacking as a “Mountain” sled. I was hoping to have an all Yamaha 4-stroke fleet but unless they change something that will not happen. She rode my ’07 Apex Mountain SE and loved the ride and handling but is intimidated by the power and weight. She hated the riding position on the Phazer and the lack of power. I was amazed at how good of a rider she actually was by watching her the past couple of days on the RMK. Here is what I believe would make a better sled for her and other ladies as well: 115-125 horse FI twin 4-stroke, a 144 X 16 X 2.25 LIGHTWEIGHT track (aka Polaris Series 5.1 track). Shallower track angle, and wider track than the Phazer “trenching king”. More conventional riding position than the Phazer/Nytro (more like the Apex). More open running boards that are the length of the tunnel. Storage like the Apex or better. Tall, hooked bars with a stiff mountain bar, handguards, low-pro windshield, Fox Floats all around, Slydog/Simmons skis in a lightweight package. PLEASE YAMAHA!

  25. brian W. says:

    How do the changes made to the front suspension geometry affect the ride, handling and stearing effort?

    I think the sled would have been better as a 136 with tipped up rails , so that could actually handle like a 121 and still have some off trail capability.. i just cant help but wonder how the 144 would handle the very tight twistys threw the trees!

    I would seriosly like to keep my apex and buy a Nytro, but yamaha needs to get rid of the crapy skis, give a slightly larger gas tank and still shed some more weight off the machine.. How about running less oil like the race sled..?

    do the shocks in the sled have more then one high speed valves for controlling compression and rebound like the other manufactures?

    Hey Brian, these aren’t quick and easy questions to answer and I have several others as well, let me do a little research and I’ll write a post to update as best I can.. cheers cr

  26. Rick from WI says:

    The XTX looks like a cool sled. I think that it well be my next new sled. How is it for wind protection in cold weather? Like -0 cold weather. I’ll have to try out a Nytro and see. Otherwise I think Yamaha is moving in the right direction. The review I read on John Dee’s web sight was very positive. If you where to ever get a fair and honest opinion you found the guy for the job.

  27. Russell.K. says:

    I used to own a 2001 mountain max it was a stock sled with a attack system. This was by far the best mountain sled ever and I kick myself for selling it. I was in revelstoke and rode a nytro mtx, I was very impressed but it won’t work for trails or flat land riding. I think the xtx will be a great sled but for the mountains it needs a grab bar and a little better track. I hope that will be next, well I will be attending the yamafest in revelstoke this year hope the xtx is there for a test ride. My first sled was 1981 ss440 and it was great and they just keep getting better every year keep up the good work yamaha rules.

    Russell, we do plan to have the XTX in Revvy, not sure if I will be attending but just let Brendan, Randy or Red know you’re a SledTalker and they’ll get you a ride on it… cheers cr

  28. Guy Conan says:

    All this pleading for getting free improvements is getting annoying.When Chev or Ford make improvements do they recall every thing they built,not likely.Yamaha makes the best snowmobile period.If you want to buy something that sounds better try a Yamaha grand piano,now we are getting somewhere, lol.

  29. brian says:

    you never got back to me on the yamaha shock valving..

    do the shocks in the sled have more then one high speed valve for controlling compression and rebound like the other manufactures?

    Ive been told that yamaha used a single stack valve and all the other manufactures use 3-5 sets of valves that are more progressive as the bumps get larger.. whichl allow a comfortable ride at for small and larger bumps.. ??????

    Sorry Brian, have had a lot on my plate the last couple of weeks. I don’t know the answer to your question but I know the guys who do… which ones are you looking at Ohlins / KYB / Soqi? They are all different. I did hear soemthing similar to what you are saying back int the SXr days… I’ll see what I can find out. cheers cr

    heres what I’m told by a very respected suspension guy inside Yamaha…

    Most Yamaha shocks are now using pyramid stacks in the past this was seldom used.
    Ohlins, Soqi and Fox pyramid stacks have been common, KYB in the past few years have offered pyramid valve stacks.
    The 2 adjustment used to adjust calibration is (1) piston – number of bleeds and diameter of bleed holes (2) valve stack or shims – 2 types of stacks are commonly used the straight stack were 2 different shim sizes are used and increasing or decreasing the number of shims to increase or decrease force, or the pyramid stack shims start from the largest diameter to smallest in diameter more progressive type of damping force.
    Some shocks offer external compression and rebound adjusters but the adjuster influence both high and low speed damping force
    We don’t have shocks with external slow and high speed compression adjusters, but I don’t believe any competitors are using these systems
    I’m guessing as to what Brians question is and only answering by the difference between Yamaha and our competitors was in the past.

  30. brian says:

    Is yamaha going to build something to compete with the new 177hp arctic cat 4 stroke ??

    Don’t you mean, is Arctic Cat going to build a 4-stroke that can compete with Yamaha? πŸ™‚ cr

  31. brian says:

    is that a hint.. Or are you joking?

    That was a tongue in cheek, snipe little dig at Cat…IMHO it will take more than pure HP for the Cat to be in the same league as an APex.
    BTW I have some info on the shock valving for you, check your question again for my response… cheers

  32. brian w says:


    Could you have that shock guy read this post http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=56313

    and have him respond to what he thinks about it?



  33. Chris says:

    Cool post. 100% great content everytime. Thanks for sharing.

  34. brian w says:

    Did your guy read it, and what did he have to say about the argument that Yamaha is using old technology in there shocks that could be upgraded?

    He did read the complete thread and found it quite interesting. He doesn’t disagree with much of it, regarding the ‘old technology’ he thinks we are now using current valving compared to what we had only a few years back. He also agrees there is room for improvement.

  35. brian w says:


    I have a 06 Apex GT, and i have cracked Exhaust Y-pipes.. THey are currently on back order.. Is there any way you can find out when they are expected? My dealer isnt much help. And i cant ride the sled like it is, because its sooo loud, its like a tractor!



    gee,and I think about all the skiddooers who spent dollars to make their sleds louder (and often slower)!… πŸ˜‰
    I’m on it cr

  36. brian w says:

    Hi again Chris

    What are the improvements on the 2009 apex compared to the 08 apex sleds?

  37. brian w. says:

    Any answers on the above questions?

    There are a lot of questions on that post, couple of things I can tell you… jury is still out on what if anything we can / will do regarding the front end changes. We know there is a demand to upgrade but this isn’t a simple bolt-on. We won’t likely know until late summer. The 08 Apex is pretty much dialed-in most of the online grumbling regards 06 / 07 models, this became quite clear in the owners survey. The biggest change to Apex in 09 is the addition of the rear heat exchanger which is also added to the Vector variants. The Phazer tunnel is no longer open beneath the muffler. The exhaust manifold cracking is also a known problem on the 06/07 which is just now showing up in larger numbers due to the higher mileage many of those sleds saw this season. The 08/09 models have an updated system and we haven’t heard of any failures which I am aware of. We were caught without enough parts in stock but are working towards fulfillment and counter-measures. Just got an update, gaskets are now in stock and Y-pipes in transit. As always your dealer is your front line for information and updates on service issues… cheers cr

  38. brian w. says:


    Just wanted to let you know i finally got my exhaust Y-Pipes..

    THanks for any help you may have done..


    πŸ˜‰ cr

  39. Yellowknife says:

    Along with the field testing post you may decide to do in the summer months – feel free to comment on the video’s Yamaha has made in the past. You guys have had some amazing ones. Was it more expensive to find the writers for them or has the ink dried up?

    #1 rule in attracting attention for the public is comedy. Make your video hilarious with the tie ins of the products and you’ve won.

    I agree, the Johnny Skeptical series was first and foremost entertaining with some product info and spin carefully woven in. Content has to be entertaining these days to be effective.. cheers cr

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