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January 8, 2008

FX Nytro – Avalanche Danger

Some stats hurt a lot more to report on than others…

I tried a little experiment this week which seems to have worked out fairly well. I had some input from one of our engineers regarding a few questions they were pondering on the FX Nytro. Being a new model and all, I suggested we post a survey on Totallyamaha requesting owners to provide the answers. nytro-satisfaction.jpgThe data I received looks good and with over 160 samples in a matter of hours, it should prove to be quite dependable. I asked the respondents at the very end, to indicate their overall level of satisfaction which you can see in this graph. I also asked the ones who were not satisfied to explain why not. I actually have some reservations about one very unsatisfied respondent even owning a Nytro (or Yamaha for that matter), I’ll leave it at that. But I am pleased with this result especially considering this is a first year sled and a fairly radical departure from our more conventional chassis. Once everyone gets the time to finish break-in, adjust to, and dial-in the suspensions, I expect the index to move up even higher. I’ll share some more details once I have the final results all compiled and reduced.

If you own an FX Nytro and completed the survey, my thanks to you… if you haven’t and would like to, here’s a link to take the FX Nytro Owners Survey Note: if you don’t own an FX Nytro please don’t click the link as you won’t find anything of interest there and you’ll skew the data.

This coming weekend is the second round of WSA world championship Snow Cross racing. It’s a double header being held at Canterbury MN . I’m already bugging Greg for an update which I’ll pass along next week. It’s been quite warm and melting in the mid-west so hopefully the track conditions will be OK.

The early snowfall seems to have boosted total industry sales with the USA currently up almost 10% over last year at this time and Canada closer to 20%. I’m still optimistic for a good riding season even in the face of the record warm temps and melt-down we’re having in the east right now. Many lakes and swamps did not have a chance to build ice and ‘tighten up’ before the big snow prior to Christmas and the grooming has been limited. Now all we need is another cold snap followed by some white lube, which is in the long range forecast. I spoke to Brendan, our west coast manager today and he informed me this is turning out to be a very bad avalanche season, the latest just slid on Big White in Kelowna. There have been several sled and back-country ski deaths already. Make sure to take extra precautions, I understand the slides are occurring in areas normally considered safe and stable. In Ontario the lake ice is rotten and should be avoided. I saw lots of sled tracks on the week-end near my cottage that left me shaking my head… please be careful folks, this is an odd-ball season for riding conditions… My heart goes out to the families of those lost… Okay, ‘nough said.

Ride Smart! Ride Safe! Ride Sober!!!

Cheers cr

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Posted @ 3:51 pm in Competition and Racing,Opinions and Insights,Yamaha People and Communication   

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22 Responses to “FX Nytro – Avalanche Danger”

  1. Larry D Lagergren says:

    Being what is discussed over on TY as of late, not only is this a GREAT IDEA but your timing is perfect.

    BTW; I have really enjoyed reading your last few articles as they have been very informative.

    Cheers
    LDL

    Thanks Larry, hey if ever I find myself needing some topical inspiration, I look no farther than Totallyamaha 😉

    cr

  2. FastJoyRide says:

    I rented a Nytro MTX for one day this week in West Yellowstone and had a chance to run it back to back in a lot of loose powder with a Summit XP (146 track). My wife’s Phazer M-L was not up to the challenge of that much snow at that much elevation – not a big surprise with 80HP, less the 9,000 ft elevation loss!

    I liked the Nytro a lot but suspect I would have needed some time with the manual and some wrenches to get it dialed in better for me. The front end was especially not impressive as delivered. But the fit and finish, initial quality, riding position, power etc. all exceeded my expectations. Looking forward to a chance to run a Nytro later this season which is set up closer to my needs!

    The Summit by comparison fit me almost perfectly “out of the box”.

    Both are highly impressive sleds – decisions, decisions!

    Good you had a chance to try the sleds to see what suits you FJR. The FX Nytro does take a little getting used to and there is lots of adjustments available to dial it in. Haven’t had a chance to ride a new Summit yet so I can’t compare. Hope you enjoyed Yellowstone, I always liked it there but I think that was more the towns hospitality than the tightly controlled riding conditions 😉 cheers cr

  3. Yellowknife says:

    Interesting stats. I just filled it out. I almost missed it!

    Chris – are you able to update us on what accessories out of the latest book are back ordered and why? Are some a safety issue, and some just sold out?

    I’ve been waiting on the skid plate and bumper ever since you released the catalogue before the dealers even seen it. I was in there that morning placing the order, and everything was backordered – was there no stock to start or very limited quantities?

    Cheers,
    YK

    YK, I’ll check and get an update in my next post… cr

  4. Erik says:

    I hope that you look at the posts on Totalyamaha about some issues not included in the survey.. Have you heard if there are some testing going on regarding the Mapping? And if there are going to bee any updates this winter?

    Theres lots of testing going on and I’m sure there will be many minor changes to next years models, this is quite normal. I don’t have any information on current model updates nor have I heard of any recent service bulletins. You should keep in touch with your dealer with regards to updates because sometimes things are handled on a case per case basis. Thanks Eric and I am keeping a close eye on comments made regarding the survey (and other issues). cheers cr

  5. Magnus says:

    I have a 07 attak (warrior here in sweden) and im very happy with it! By far the best allround machine i`ve driven! Now my problem is that il only hear good things about the nytro all the time and must confess that i really want one but im to happy with my attak so i just cant trade it in, so what to do? Wait for the 09s and hope for an uppgraded apex or go for a nytro now already just to be dissapointed if the apex get an facelift next year hm. Hope you can get a hint on whats up. Thank ya for this great blog and be careful out there.

    Oh you’re a cagey one Magnus, trying to trick me into talking about the 09’s eh?? 😛 . The way i see it, you are quite happy with your Attak, we will be pulling the sheets off the new models in a couple of months, why not enjoy the Attak a little while longer and see what changes are in store for the Nytro and Apex… but if you really need to try something new this year far be it from me to talk you out of a sale, after-all the Apex may very well remain as it is, not that thats a bad thing… cheers cr

  6. Brian W. says:

    I think the thing that make the most poeple mad about yamaha is that they kinda trick us… They give people test rides on highly tuned sleds.. and then change the calibrations on the suspensions before they go into productions (why i dont know) I know a couple of guys who bought new FX NYTROS this year and are from from happy with how they ride.. the are already talking about pulling all the shocks and getting new springs installed and the shocks revalved because of how poorly they handle studder bumps (and these are big guys 230-240+lbs)

    You shouldnt have to tune your suspension before you ride it..

    The biggest think keeping people on yamahas is the 4 stroke engine.. not the wieght or performance.. ONce you ride a 4 stroke and get use to the engine its hard to go back to a 2 banger..

    One thing is for sure.. the new FX Nytro is a sweet looking sled with alot of curb appeal… i just wish Yamaha would deliver them as test..

    Hey Brian, I started to respond to your comment and decided I would post on the subject, please check back in a day or two and I’ll try to shed some light on this for you… cheers cr

  7. Yellowknife says:

    Hey Chris – I’m curious about Yamaha’s oil recommendations, specifically running 0w-30 Semi-Synthetic.

    i’m about to buy a case of it, but was wondering if full synthetic would be the way to go?

    Hello YK, There is no doubt full synth oil can offer certain advantages not available from standard or semi-synth. I have been doing some research on this subject and plan to post my findings later in the season. One thing I can tell you is not all synthetic are equal. There are different grades which is normally reflected in the price. The less expensive full synth is arguably not really full synthetic at all. I am running Yamalube 0-30 semi-synthetic and would recommend the same as a rule of thumb. It is developed blended and tested to meet the exact requirements of our snowmobile engines. I’ll post some background info for you soon… cheers cr

  8. Scott says:

    Chris,
    Any thoughts on the front end issues some guys are having? I know there is some truth to the accounts and I’m not talking about impact related damage. Are their plans to offer stronger parts? I’m one of those who believe that things were designed for a certain reason so I’m a bit hesistant(and cheap) about welding and reinforcing front end components that may not need it. Sometimes making one thing stronger only puts the next weakest link somewhere else more vital and expensive.

    Scott you make an excellent point, I used to look at the trailing arm as being a ‘fuse’ of sorts, if it didn’t bend the force would go into the frame causing a lot more damage and expense. Was this intentional? dunno … One things for sure; when we gusseted the a-arms for racing, we eliminated the fuse and bent some frames. I’m not privy to any changes in the Nytro clip or front-end components at this time but I will toss out a couple of feelers. cheers cr

  9. scottpee says:

    Hey Chris, i had a quick question regarding the front susp “setup” with my 08 Apex GT. I find that the front end hits HARD..little bumps/stutter bumps go right thru to the handle bars. I have the oHLINS set on soft, and the springs are completely backed off.(which is now giving me inside ski lift – not nice at times) Should the springs not be a little “weaker” from the factory, to let the shocks do “their thing”? The way this is setup, the springs are so hard the shocks barely gets to show their magic?…any suggestions…you the man!

    Hey Scott, suspension set-up is a very personal thing, depends on rider weight, conditions and style. The basics for your GT (assuming this is not the 40th ed with Ohlins) The front SOQI piggybacks come with a 26.5 (27) rate spring. It’s free length (uninstalled) is 260mm, the standard installed length is 252.5mm. The compression clicker (knob on the reservoir) should be carefully turned in clockwise until lightly seated then backed out seven clicks for standard setting, you can go another 5 clicks for a total of 12 out, to soften things up. That is the first thing I would do. Without knowing your weight, there is a chance you may be bottoming out the front if you have backed everything off. Generally our front ends are quite neutral for a wide range of riders with most tuning being done for handling purposes/ We don’t offer any optional springs for the front shocks as there has been no demand. The shocks also take some time to break-in and the springs to ‘set’. They will get softer around the first oil change interval. Ski lift is an illusive thing, I ride a GTA and the most significant change I have found in handling is upgraded carbides (once you bake the stock ones). The Duallies work very well in a lot of conditions also the ones I personally like are the Qualipieces out of Quebec, specifically the ones with the built in corrector plate. Again this is a personal thing. I’d recheck your settings, starting from stock and change one thing at at time starting with the damping. good luck and happy riding… cheers cr

  10. scottpee says:

    Hey Chris, oops i should have been more specific,sorry, yeah it IS the 40th ed, with the Ohlins. I weigh (….is my wife lookin?) around 190-195lbs with gear. I am definitely not bottoming out, these are small stutter bumps, and small field ruts. I am putting on a set of Simmons skis this weekend, as i personally find the stock skis (no offense) too ridgid. I have heard that a stiffer sway bar will eliminate the inside ski lift, is there one offered by Yamaha? Sorry to be a pain, just wanted to get it right, so i can “convert” the others! cheers

    OK Scott, the difference in spec from SOQI to Ohlins, your spring is a 28 rate with a free length of 300mm and set length (installed) at 297, basically there is very little preload (84NM) on the spring. The comp damp adjust is on the reservoir, max out from lightly seated is 20 clicks, stock is 15. Make sure no one has fiddled with these, sometimes happens in the showroom or parking lot. I run mine at 18 clicks. Rebound (on the shaft) is 20 out for standard max of 30 clicks for less tension, (I run mine at 25 out). Hopefully you like the Simmons some guys really like ’em. I gave mine away after a while but at that time there were far too many doo’s leaving the same footprint. (theres still far too many doos where I ride but we’re working on it) 😉 Cheers cr

  11. Darren Leeblanc says:

    I have a 2007 Attak and reading page 8-19 of the owners manual it recomends GL-3 , 75W or 80W chaincase oil.

    My question is what the recomemded 2nd number??

    ….do you run 75W90 or 75W140???

    Thanks

    Hey Darren, not sure which oils you are looking at but appears its a multi-grade as opposed to a straight viscosity. In multi grade the two number examples you are looking at is referred to as the viscosity index: ‘An index that relates to the amount of viscosity change over a range of temperature’.
    For 75W90, the 75W refers to winter grade and the 90 to summer. The 75/90 would be the one closest to our recommended. Gear oil or Hypoid is essentially a liquid grease blended for high pressure and shear stability, same stuff you use in a cars differential. You are apparently looking at automotive gear oil which is fine but I would be remiss if I didn’t tell you we sell dedicated Yamaha chaincase oil blended for our snowmobile application. Of course there are synthetics and performance blends on the market with additional additive like VI improvers, graphite or teflon etc. Factory recommends straight grade 80W or 90W API GL-4 gear oil. Hope this helps. cr

  12. Nytro B says:

    Hey Chris
    One post on TY has a fellow stating that his dealer tells him that Yamaha has a fix for the FX Nytro handwarmers in the form of a wiring harness. Have you heard anything on it yet? I have had mine to the dealer and they say they test okay (voltage, etc) but agree with me that they don’t heat up properly at all. Mine get barely luke warm (even inside the shop) no matter what setting or rpm.
    Thanks

    I haven’t heard of any update bulletins being issued on this but I’ll check on Monday. The survey I did on the ownership experience definitely indicates there is something going on with some hot and satisfactory other not. We’ll keep pushing for an answer… cr

  13. Darren says:

    My local Yamaha dealer sold and recommended this oil to me:

    http://www.maximausa.com/products/gearlubes/chaincaselube.asp

    Maxima Snowmobile Chain Case Lubricant is a 100% synthetic formulation specifically designed for low temperature flow while providing outstanding lubrication to highly loaded chains & sprockets with minimum power loss. Also contains special rust & corrosion inhibitors.

    Technical Data

    Color D 1500 Green
    Gravity °A.P.I. 25.1
    Viscosity SUS @ 100°F 760
    Viscosity SUS @ 210°F 126
    Viscosity cSt @ 40°C 163.0
    Viscosity cSt @ 100°C 26.5
    Pour Point, °F -40
    Flash Point, °F 420
    Fire Point, °F 455
    Viscosity Index 199
    SAE Viscosity 75w140

    I haven’t put it in yet but I want to run the best fully synthetic chaincase oil that will NOT void my warranty. I do run a high speeds for long periods.

    I’m still running 0W30 Yamalube in the motor, but the chaincase I went with what my dealer recommended….are they right or wrong???

    I am sure its a good product, one of the benefits of full synthetic is a wide viscosity range, the cold pour point looks good at minus 40. Considering you are running in a winter only condition you have a 75W oil with excellent properties… now what was your serial number again?? 😉 On the warranty issue, the key point upon inspection is if there is in fact oil in the chaincase and how old and nasty is it. It’s really hard to nail down an oil related failure in anything, thats why some snake oil companies will warrant your engine for life against oil related failures… try to prove it … keep the chain adjusted right (finger tight) and the oil fresh and level you’re good to go… one last thing, we did have some issues with chaincase covers/gaskets but I believe that was on the 06’s (not in the office today) maybe run that by your dealer as it would only show up with leakage after sustained high speed runs and only on some units not all, we had a fix for it. cheers cr

  14. scottpee says:

    Hey Chris, thanks for the front shock specs!, we spent the last 3 days up in New Liskeard 300km days!…ahhhhh so nice up there!, anyway, i found the handling “issue” with my sled….. I hopefully caught it before any damage was done. (could have easily been done either at the dealer or factory – i’ll never know)…anyway, it is resolved, sled is handling damn good, i love that motor! AND it started no problem even spending the nite in minus 22 degrees! I may install the rear heat exchanger “add-on” just incase of lower snow conditions. But all is good…i will bring it to my dealer today for it’s first diaper change!…thanks again!

  15. brian W. says:

    I have a question about my 06 apex GT..

    I have had the rear shock replaced 3 times because the shock wire broke and the shock itself was Blown..

    This past summer i had someone else rebuild it witht he new updated seal from OHLEINs and revalved for my weight..

    THe shock wire broke again last week..

    I have the wire routed via the updated routing and many extra zip ties added, but alas the wire keeps breakig because it is in a tight area where the snow and ice builds up..

    WHAT can i do to solve this problem and has yamaha ever thought about a recall or problem solver for this issue??

    THanks

    Don’t have a lot of good news for you Brian, there is a bulletin on re-routing and protecting the wire but but by the sounds of things you and your dealer have performed that. The issue has been investigated by our engineers and aside form the service bulletin there was no ‘recall’ or other recommendations issued. I’m not sure what the conditions are where you ride or how you prepare so don’t shoot me for saying this but if it was my sled, I would be taking a little bit of time before setting out in the morning to make sure I knocked out as much ice as possible from the skid. You obviously have dialed the shock into to your weight and style so severe bottoming shouldn’t be the issue, sorry but I can’t offer much else given what I know cheers cr

  16. brian W. says:

    I know the largeset problem is that yamaha has to run there exhuast above the track, which in turn melts the snow and creates ice when you stop. And as anyone knows, on a long day riding you might stop 3-4 times a day,

    THe next morning, you have a solid 40lb block of snow at the end of the tunnel and a bunch of ice around the shock..

    Actually been an engineering thorn ever since the first liquid -cooled sled was built, the running board heat exchangers as well as bulk head exchangers have both caused icing problems at times prior to the exhaust system, gotta melt or knock the junk out of the skid whenever you can… we’ll keep reminding engineering of the issues

  17. Paul F says:

    Keep up the good work, 08 is my first year back on a yamaha since 96 picked up a 40th Nytro and logged about 325 very enjoyable km’s before a nasty bulkhead incident sidelined me for about 6 week’s. I was so impressed I went out and got the 40th apex GT for a backup plan. It’s not bad either. My dealer has been great ( Go Motorsports Pickering) and most of the yamaha online forums are a great place to hang out at when the weather goes south! Thanks Paul

  18. Vince c. says:

    Chris, could you give me a bit of advice around chaincase adjustment. I just bought a used FX Nytro RTX ER and it sure has a ton of play in the secondary. The idea of finger tight seems arbitrary as we all have different hand strengths and maybe some bolts move more easily than others. What should my expectations be when I move the secondary back and forth -right now it seems like a mile!

    Vince

    Hey Vince, finger tight is a good measure, the free-play in the jack-shaft is all reverse gear related. We used to have a measurement for degrees of rotation of the secondary, which if I recall was about 15-20 degrees… finger tight is the way to go, don’t give that extra little turn for good measure as you don’t want to over-tighten… when in doubt speak to your dealerships service tech people… cheers cr

  19. NytroFever says:

    You should run another survey to see how happy your customers are with your….new?…line-up for 2009. *cough*

    It would be interesting to see how happy everyone is with Yamaha’s decision NOT to incorporate a larger gas tank on the Nytro XTX.
    There was sufficient time to get one into production. The excuse of a smaller tank for a *Ditch / Bump* sled was acceptable will not work for the XTX. It is meant to leave the trail and the ditch, need more gas than that.

    Lets hear how many customers/readers enjoyed being told what they don’t need contrary to them voicing their opinions all year long.

    p.s: Tipped 144″ Rail….WOW. Who would have ever thought of that?
    Next year you will have a ground breaking multi-link sway bar, right?

    careful what you ask for!cr

  20. Evan says:

    i recently just bought a fx nytro rtx and wanted a 2 inch track put on then found out there was too many changes to get it to fit so i decided to put a 1.5 inch on. i took it to the dealer and they said they had to cut some wear strips out to make room, i looked on the sled and couldn’t find anything. when i got it back i found that the 2 peices of square tubing rivited to the top of the tunnel were cut out.

    i was just wondering if those were wear strips to protect the track from touching the exhaust or were they meant to strengthen the tunnel?

    No worries they are there to protect from studs not strengthen anything… cheers cr

  21. manitoban says:

    Wondering if there is an updated front end for the 08 nytro through Yamaha? Or any suggestions to where it can be obtained?Sure has brought down the value of the 08’s!

    you would need to discuss the details with your Yamaha dealer, I would not suggest you try to purchase the updated parts as, done properly, the complete front clip would be need to be changed out. cr

  22. greathsmith says:

    This was a useful post and I think it is rather easy to see from the other comments as well that this post is well written and useful. I bookmarked this blog a while ago because of the useful content and I am never being disappointed. Keep up the good work.


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